@wolftrest: Thanks for the polite and relevant post. (I hope I've been polite as well, though when things get heated it's hard to keep an even tone; so I apologize if any heat leaked through.)
"Whether they changed into ugly crystals or not is of little concequence. The original study may not be correct on the beautiful part, but it does show that water crystals do change when prayed over."
I see now why you had a problem with the stuff about beauty. It may seem irrelevant, but when you know how the original study (Masaru's) was conducted, you see why it was done that way. The original study purports to show that water crystals change to be more beautiful, so the "counter-study" studies that particular claim. Masaru's study does not show that water crystals change in general - AFAIK, he didn't do any "before and after" to see if they were changed, but just took pictures once they had formed and had thoughts of love and peace and so forth directed at them. He then claimed that these were more beautiful than normal water crystals, which he did the same with.
The triple-blind follow-up study did the same thing, except this time it made sure no one knew beforehand which was which, so they couldn't be biased. The water crystals came out looking the same, on average, no matter what intention was directed at them; though since the "intent" water crystals were actually found to be a bit uglier than the control group, it's possible they were changed to be uglier.
However, as far as I know, no one has done "before and after" studies to see if they change in general - to be either more beautiful or uglier - so that question is up in the air. Note, though, that the triple-blind study says the following: "An objective comparison of contrast did not reveal any significant differences among the samples." That seems like it detected no *systematic* changes, at least; though I think it was you who noted that different individuals could have different effects, meaning their results, if looked at as a group, might be mistaken for totally unchanged crystals.
Artemisia says she's had personal experience, so it's possible, but in lieu of a large, controlled study, I withhold judgment. Since it was found that Masaru's claim was most likely wrong, and since Masaru's claim is the one that started the whole water-crystal thing, I think it's evidence - though not proof - that they don't change at all.
"And even that is not what this thread is about. The thread is about whether or not battle spells that have a near instant effect are possible or even plausable."
That's true; I just wanted to explain to Artemisia and anyone reading along that the water crystal idea was mistakenly reported as proven by many news outlets, when in fact there are problems with the original study and it is, if not entirely disproved, at least in serious doubt. Thus, the claim that it's been proven is not correct and could be misleading to those who may not have heard about the follow-up study and general scientific doubt surrounding Masaru.
"As such, the original questions about whether magic can effect the corporeal world in a visible manner and without the roundabout process of letting the magic grow before the effect happens has more evidence (whether it is pretty or not to the general populace) to support it."
Entirely aside from our debate, do you know of any other ways magic has a physical effect? It's long been my holy grail to obtain direct physical evidence of magical efficacy, but excepting my work with certain grimoires, I've not had much luck.
I know that the mind can effect reality, and my proof is actually not magic, but simple techniques. If you look up japanese therapies, you are bound to stumble across those who use their chi to provide thermatherapy (not sure if that is the right word or not) by heating their hands up and moving them over their patients back that is covered in tin foil. While they do rub their hands together, that does not give enough explanation for the amount of heat that has been shown on heat sensery studies done on this type of therapy. To my knowledge, it is impossible to be able to generate enough heat out of your hands through simple friction to cause heat waves to show over the tin foil. I will look to see if I can find the link to the type of therapy I am tlaking about, but it was over 4 years ago, so I will have to browse for a while.
Another thing that provides support to the theory that magic being used to effect the corporeal plane is through the Christian religion. Miracles are nothing more than divine magic manifesting a change on our plane of existance, so it could be argued that miracles are proof to support the theory, although they could be used to say that only a divine being could effect that change.
Exorcisms (if you believe they actually work since I know that some people believe them to be hoaxes) are another example of of the spiritual power working to effect a near instant (in the prospect of it usually taking days) change in our plane of existance.
Each of these could be disproved seperatly to be suspect to be considered false, but when presented together with similarities, the best even a skeptic can achieve would be to say that it is unlikely, but at least plausable.
On another note, I personally know spells such as my personal shield that have worked for me before on a moments notice, but I cannot provide proof considering it is hard to have the materials for a scientific documentary to be handy at all times. Spells that are cast in the moment aren't very strong on average compared to rituals that take days or even months to facilitate on average considering that the energy is coming mostly from the caster, and they are very dangerous. If someone were to try a spell that has a quick effect on the corporeal plane (such as a psychic shield, or a spell designed to afflict an enemy) then they should bring their "A game". It requires great concentration, will power, and energy as well as not providing any room for error.
I'll try to find materials on the Japanese "thermatherapy" as well; it sounds interesting. I know chi-based techniques are often cited as causing physical effects, like some of those Chinese martial artists who can supposedly do stuff like touch someone and drop them, or even do it from a distance. It's definitely something to look into, although I've been stopped from pursuing it too far because, like most Eastern stuff, it has a lot of emphasis on received authority (i.e., "you must have a teacher").
Re: your personal shield, that's what I'm talkin' about! Have you actually deflected incoming objects, or is it designed for a different purpose? If you know of any other spells that cause a physical effect, I'd be interested to hear of them too. In my own researches, I've found telekinesis to be the most widely-claimed physical effect; there are tons of videos on YouTube, for instance. Unfortunately, it seems like it would take months or years to become proficient, and I'm not sure I'd want to take that much time on faith.
Another interesting route is Hermeticism; I'm thinking in particular of Franz Bardon's "Initiation Into Hermetics", which is a very thorough introduction. I like that it's step-by-step, which eliminates the guesswork, and he promises that you will be able to do things like light a candle with a spell. I don't know of anyone who has accomplished this, though.
And finally, as mentioned in my earlier post, I've had some luck with medieval grimoires; they're not conducive to easy experimentation, but I'm slowly putting together all the materials to work a particular one (which I don't like to reveal publicly, but if you're curious I'll mail the name).
