I agree that we should endeavor to be helpful, but I believe that once a person has established themselves as being unwilling to learn they should be dealt with harshly.
I somehwhat agree, Chrion, dealt with harshly... if they are so unwilling to learn, why not just leave them be to their own mind. It would save a lot more time and energy best spent on pursuing better things.
Re: Humans By: Lycanangel
Post # 14 Jul 04, 2012
Nova - Seriously true, and I agree on this! Totally sad how things are!
Ronin - That's a good hardball about Islam cause that's my religion (Parents born in the middle east except me and my brothers and sister) and yes some of them are like that, my uncle is like that (we rarely never spoken to him which is a long story) too the same way. I've been reading the translations version, and whats incredible how people can disobey it acting so high mighty religious. I remember years back at my mom's friends house in IL. She told me to eat with my right hand (I'm born left handed and the only one too) being so paranoid over it in front of my mom and sister! Geeeez
Re: Humans By: Nova_Blast
Post # 15 Jul 04, 2012
Wow thanks for all the positive feedback. I am kinda surprised. I thought no one would agree with me.
bleu259
I will not get over it. As long as other humans are being mistreated for stupid things I will be there to help them. To stick up for them. And how is it not a leap to liken you to the witch hunts? Sure you don't kill them. But you still consider anything outside of the general consensus of magic to be fluffy. That is exactly what they did during the witch hunts. They just called it heresy. What also annoys me is the rating system on this site. I am seeing people with 7 years of experience (not myself by the way) being rated as beginners. It almost seems to me that this rating system is a way of weeding out fluffies. Anyone who believes the general consensus is considered a high ranking witch. I am not saying this for sure but this is the way this rating system seems to me.
Just because a person claims to have had years of experience does not automatically mean they are knowledgeable, even in the areas they say they have studied. And a person who has no experience at all can easily claim to have years backing them up- which happens all the time here. The rating system depends on a variety of things: contribution to the forums and the chatter, the content of what the person says in the forum/chatter, their general knowledge on topics they study or talk about, level of maturity, etc. If you want a higher ranking, contribute more mature intellectual posts to the forums or add mature topics and conversation to the chatter.
As for the fluffy aspect, there are limitations and things which are not currently possible. If someone claims to do something that is beyond those limitations- that is not just them going beyond the "public" view, that is them going beyond logic and reason as well. There are things which cannot be done, currently, and thus anyone who claims to be a creature or do those impossible things is likely to get backlash. A reason for this is that there are many experienced older practitioners on the site- and a lot of them view that "fluff" as insulting to real practices and traditions.
In general, I agree with some of the things said in this post. I definitely agree with what Chiron said earlier: We should endeavor to be helpful. We should strive to help people figure out what is what, to explain how things work, to get them going on the right back- but there does come a point in time where those people who are claiming such things do not want to be helped, or will not change their beliefs. If they are unwilling to learn or to progress, what is there to do? I agree with Othala, and I think people do need to learn to be a little more empathetic and understanding to each other but I think at the same time those people claiming the things which get them labeled "fluff" need to be open to learning and understanding the opposing views as well. Especially when those views are backed by the general consensus, logic, reason, and years of practice.
"And how is it not a leap to liken you to the witch hunts? Sure you don't kill them. But you still consider anything outside of the general consensus of magic to be fluffy. That is exactly what they did during the witch hunts. They just called it heresy."
Let's see...
The witch trials were particularly tragic because they were so frequently inescapable. We in the modern day take for granted the ability to just get up and move to a new community. Frequently you didn't have that option during the witch trials.
If they don't want to be here because of the way the forum treats them we not only do not keep them here (how would we even do that?), but we actively encouraged to leave.
If any actual witches were killed during the witch trials it was essentially an accident. They didn't even know what witches were (they were convinced it was Satan-centric). The trial was often an unpleasant experience, torture was sometimes employed, and if you were real unlucky they would kill you. The witch trials were something bad which happened to people who did nothing to cause it.
If you're labeled a fluffy it is because you've not just shown a lack of knowledge on magick, but are willfully ignorant and unwilling to learn. We then point out where they've gone wrong and refuse to let them lie to others with ease while in our little cyber domain. We do this to protect others from becoming misinformed and so that the fluffer will be encouraged to stop acting like an offensive moron (not completely unlike punishing a child or fining a criminal). It's not like we're stalkers who would follow you to another forum, so escaping us is as simple as hitting the close button. Being treated as a fluffy is therefore a potentially beneficial thing which fluffies very specifically cause and which they continue through their own willful actions by both remaining fluffy and by constantly returning to the forum.
The witch trials actually had very little to do with Christianity proper. It was usually a response to hard times in a community too superstitious and primitive to deal with it in a remotely healthy way. The witch trials were therefore ignorant people killing ignorant people out of fear and, shockingly enough, ignorance.
Attacks on fluffiness is based in both a deep love and a healthy knowledge of magick. Magick is not a faith, it is a science. If it were really just a matter of what people believed then there wouldn't be so great a need for teachers and good books - we'd all just believe stuff until it happened. Saying that magick can turn you into a mermaid is like saying biochemistry could do the same. I suppose it's theoretically possible that we could someday make a discovery that makes it possible, but as it stands and as trend suggests it will continue to stand, in both cases it is impossible and to say otherwise is to blatantly disagree with all logic and evidence. Literally all we're trying to do is offer up our knowledge and experience in defense of a science and art which we love. The treatment of fluffies is therefore educated people correcting ignorant and offensive people, though not always in the nicest of ways. Honestly, considering the great disservice these people do to something so beloved to us I think we're actually pretty gentle.
So yeah... that's how it's a big leap. Pretty much the only thing they have in common is that they're unpleasant and pertain to negative opinions of others. By that measure I can compare my cooking and the holocaust because both have caused suffering and made a mess of things.
"I am seeing people with 7 years of experience (not myself by the way) being rated as beginners."
Having seven years of experience is not the same thing as having learned from those seven years. I've seen many magicians who seemingly haven't progressed or learned much in a span of time that big. I know it's kind of sad to think that happens, even a little scary, but it happens. I don't know if it's caused by sheer obliviousness or if they're being taught a lesson they are specifically closed to or what ever else might cause it.
It's also a matter of quality. Seven years of guidance from a respected Wiccan teacher, or seven years of studying Crowley, or seven years of reiki instruction from a certified master is way different than seven years of cult membership, or seven years of Silver Ravenwolf and writing mermaid spells.
Besides, seven years of the most magnificent study and experience won't get you a high rank if all you ever post is mad theory and inane babel. Having seven years of experience does not mean that you show it.
I totally realize that there are problems with the ranking system (and now that I'm ranked Knowledgeable I feel sort of awkward saying that), but sometimes the problem really is with the member or their activity. Please take both possibilities.
"Sometimes people don't want to hear the truth because they don't want their illusions destroyed." -- Friedrich Nietzche
... here you all start again...
you start offending those who live in other worlds.
You friend tough that Ghost exist ? They do exist.
Spirits, Ghost, Demons etc. They all exist. This is the reality.
It's up to the humans to believe it or no, but i still don't offend anyone who does live in other worlds.
For me nothing is impossible because i have been trough lot of things that prove that humanity has no limits.
Not only humanity but the world the universe.
Why did you ban User180371 ? because he was writing the truth ?
Accept it moderators, You can't make the whole members in this site to think like you ^^. You can't make them believe in things that you own created.
Nova wasn't banned. Check your facts before accusing us, please, as we get a lot of that. And no, we cannot make members believe as we do. We do not try to do that, and we do not want them. However, we do encourage them to be logical and rational.
