It's not a thing of semantics. It's a thing about culture, respect, and appreciation of the variety of our practices. But thank you for belittling those things.
Magic is a product of culture, and culture includes certain beliefs about the structure of the universe which should be explored in order to understand the nature behind a certain magical practice. Exclusion of those ideas strips the practice at its core. Hoodoo wouldn't be hoodoo if the Protestant, and sometimes Catholic, influences were stripped from it.
Again, names mean something.
Thank you for stating that I do not have the time to come into every single thread about honey jars, there are a lot of them, and explain the workings behind them. Perhaps one day, I will make a post about the use of honey jars and their place in African American folk magic.
You say that and in the same breathe you also have encouraged research and knowledge on how magic works before attempting it, yes? So, that point does not need to be discussed further.
You're correct though, there is no need for this. There is no need to talk about erasure of practices when it so clearly is a problem which can't be solved by talking to one person through an internet forum. If anyone has tried to discredit or insult someone's views, it would be you for being confrontational about another theory on how magic works beyond the attempt of pseudo-psychology of "intent" and "will power" matters.
I'm sorry this communication break down happened because of a lack of understanding and reading comprehension.
" And as I have said before, nobody is presenting honey bars on this site as Conjure related. Nobody at all. "
You can not present honey jars in a context that doesn't include Conjure without some form of cultural appropriation, which would be ingerently wrong. Plenty of people are presenting them as such, as far as I have seen.
"And if any if this had actually been a theological question, then it should always be explained when a practice is specific to a religion, as magic is not religion, religion is not magic, though the two can certainly intermingle."
Quite correct, Conjure is not a religion, but it is a practice with a long history and standing traditions. It is a tradition of people ripped from their homelands ( Natives, Africans, Irish, etc. ) and forced into slavery or other terrible conditions. This practice helped them to survive and is passed down from generation to generation. It has it's own dogmas and themes that are prevalent throughout each tradition as it was passed down. So, while there is not a Holy Book or a speaking prophet, it is a tradition that deserves respect and that you don't have a right to take from because you 'want to' or because you think you can. Honey Jars are a Connjure working and should be treated as such.
"But giving a person a religious practice without telling a person that it is, is deceptive. Yet somehow taking an action out of a religious context is disrespectful? What about the people who are following practices which may violate their own religious beliefs without knowing? Is that not also disrespectful?"
As discussed above, it isn't a religious practice, it is a traditional practice. If it violates another's religious practices and they haven't studied, is it the fault of the person who decided to get elbows deep in a practice they don't understand or appreciate, properly. In this sense, they disrespect themselves, and the worker/advisor has only attmepted to help and is the opposite of disrespectful in this context.
" There is no need for this semantic nonsense. "
It must be nice to have the privelege to call this 'semantic nonsense' as you tread across a tradition founded in the blood and sweat of the oppressed and enslaved. The only thing that has occured fromt he mouths of Mems, Voo, and myself is a defense of a practice that others are all too ready to strip and appropriate for their own uses and ends.
" A honey jar and a sweetening jar are the same thing. It may well be that the concept did originate in hoodoo and conjure, and the name would naturally follow. Not everyone who does a honey jar does it in a hoodoo, conjure, or animist context. But they still insist they area doingf a honey jar spell."
It is not our responsibility to perpetuate ignorance and promote cultural appropriation. A honey jar and a sweeting jar are not the same because at their core, Honey Jars are animistic and Sweetening Jars are not. Anyone who does a 'honey jar' outside of the context of hoodoo, conjure, and animism would exclude the use of petitioning and psalms chanting which would leave it as the stripped down sweetening jar and not a honey jar. They can insist they are doing a honey jar, but they are not.
"Not everyone who chants the Psalms is doing so in a context of Christianity, or any of the other religions which do so. Some people use them external to any religious context, as merely affirmations of personal empowerment. "
To use Psalms is literally to use the Christian and Jewish faiths, if you do not recognize the fact you are doing so you are appropriating a culture. They may be used as affirmations, but recognition of their origins is necessary, otherwise you are appropriating and disrespecting a people and a tradition.
