Magick itself despite most hollywood hype and shows, cannot change the genetics, appearance, or inherrent traits of a human being nor animal. It can however offer ways of suggestive behavior, in relation to trance states and hypnosis.
Magick and science have traditionally been viewed as opposing forces, and alchemy or alchemistry if you prefer, was said to combign the two which is why it was reguarded as a higher magick traditionally.
Genetics is a branch of science that alters, and/or studies Genes, DNA or Genetic variation in living organisms. Some well known examples would be gene replication and gene mutation. Where as in magick its more subtle behavioral modifications and such things. A common comparison and probably an accurate one is that where science is heavier on the left, cold, and analytical side of the brain, magick is more in the language of emotion and imagination. or perhaps more importantly, willpower.
So with this comparison, it would be criminal not to bring up the fact that people have debated what is better science or magick. Most peoples argument for science is that we currently live in an age of science. I respectfully disagree, we live in the age of technology. The number of people who are practicing magick now a days i guarantee you will be just as great and probably more so than the scientific genius' out there. Magick and science require great amounts of dicipline to become adept in, and the concepts themselves are thought near impossible to understand in their truest form. On one hand i could sit here and type more paragraphs for each side, or i could simply skip to the point.
If youd prefer i skip to the point, just pass the line below till you see the second line and youll find my conclusion. if youd enjoy the arguments, feel free to read on.
Argument one - Age: So what came first, the chicken or the egg? you could all argue that magick has been around for thousands of years, but on the other hand humans have been striving to understand what they experience and see for just as long. If you believe in evolution (which i dont find logical but its your belief) then animals have been having their own science for just as long, like the hawk trying to crack the thick egg, or the wolf devising strategy. Its all a mater of perspective. conclusion to argument one - tie
Argument two - capability: If you talk to any person in magick who understands its limitations, youll find it is actually quite interesting. Magick in and off itself cannot say, fling a fireball or control the elements as hollywood would have you believe, but as i earlier stated, it can modify behavior or influence it to a very logical extent. Science however, with the power of genetics and mutigens, in my opinon, the ability to control human and animal genetics for the better, or create a disease that turns organs to liquid yuck, i say science. conclusion to argument two - Science
Argument three - Requirements and the learning process: Magick seemly comes at a disadvantage due to the fact that sciences are taught at any publick school. But a library can hold just as much information on magick if you know the right book to look for. Educational wise however, science faces a lot less obsticals, but both have the disadvantage of requiring commitment and much research. There are reasonably a larger populus of scientists and mathamaticians who would teach happily, where as magick practicioners tend to be more..... umm.... fickle? conclusion to argument three - Science
Artument four and five - Culture Vs the dangers: Magick has a great cultural history, having existed in nearly every culture imagineable and historical, nobody can even start to argue agains that point. Science however, for the sake of this argument includes such things as the crafts and arts. Music in and of itself is both spiritual and to a degree mathmatical. It all said and done though, this round to magick. The dangers of magick are varied as per peoples beliefs, however the dangers of science can often result in iscolation, a colder world view, or sometimes none of that. However to look at something logically or analitically is to look at it without any emotional response. conclusion to argument four and five - magick, magick.
In conclusion, The best of the two is whatever is right for you. This is probably going to sound like one huge middle finger to people wanting to hear an actual conclusion, but the fact is, my belief isnt the same as yours. the better of the two is for you all to decide.
Many people seem to confuse magic with occult, which is what you were describing in this article. Magic is merely the process or result of taking two entirely separate things and turning it into something completely new! Most call that science, but it is my belief that science is an umbrella term used to cover all of the aspects of our universe people have not "understood" for centuries! Call it what you will, I just like to keep things "simple".
i would like it noted that i like neither science nor magick nor occult. i like to be in between the areas. personally i made this post as a simple experiment to give a simplistic argument to people who claim science is better or the occult is better.
Ah. I enjoyed this.
I always merged science with magick.
Even though I am fairly developed in magick, I looked at it as a natural branch of science and an extension of nature. Thank you! It gives me a more clear thought process.
Re: Science and magick By: sunshinerain / Beginner
Post # 5 Jan 11, 2015
i enjoyed reading your arguments- and the shock when you kept the answer to be inferred as you didnt actually name a winner.
ask a devote christain religiom or science and theyll probably (really i mean hopefully) be unsure. magick follows laws like science, but science is changing constantly. in my opinion, i think you can have both- its just fear that controls people
one more thing- not everyone can learn magick or science, some only one, some both, some neither. you need this balance because we cant all be scientists! or do magick! then there is no honor too it, no special feature... its like eating, sure we all do it differently but its not interesting... culture, education, lifestyle, knowledge, its all quite spectacular when you think about it...
I like how you manage to keep an unbiased approach on the matter. However in order to place an argument between subjects you should to define them. I'm sure you've read articles similar to yours in structure. When these arguments are written the writer no matter who this person is or what they're comparing they're always best off defining their subjects first. You could just use a definition you find online and that's perfectly valid but what magic could mean to me could be different from what it means to you. For me magic is a science or at least an applied science that isn't quite able to be calculated yet. These definitions don't have to be completely correct and they don't have to be the definition you believe as long as you're willing to admit that, all that theses definitions are able to ensure you and the reader are on the same page and to state your subjects as simple arguable definitions. You provided some examples which could be vaguely be considered definitions but one of the most important things in a comparison is a definition.
Not sure if I agree with any of your arguments for they were still vague on their own. However you showed a great unbiased approach and you displayed what you knew leaving much room for debate along with a well organized structure.
One more thing. I would like to know why you think of evolution "illogical".
long story on the evolution thing, thats just a feud over peoples religion or views. As to why i didnt define it, you talk to anybody who knows what they are talking about, to try to define magick is to basically call a deathwish, people will tear you apart. everybody defines it different. i suppose i could have defined science, but it would be one sided and unfair to the arguments.
Re: Science and magick By: Brysing Moderator / Adept
Post # 9 Jan 12, 2015
Magic is changing one or more things into something else.Any science research does the same thing. Applied science figures out how to do it. Magic and science are pretty much the same thing. All that used to be done by witches is now done by Medical Researchers.Magic has nothing to do with religion or the supernatural; although many claim it to be!
And these long posts, claiming to know, make my head ache! Anybody with writing skills can read a couple of books and then write all that is on the original post. It doesn't mean that the writer "knows"; only that he has "read".
