In ancient times, during war, Egyptians would cut the phalluses off their enemies that were slain during a battle. It is an ancient Egyptian belief that if you are male and do not have a penis/testicles then you are incapable of entering the Land of the Dead. So, how do you guys think the ancient Egyptians would react to transsexuals and transgenders, specifically male to female, but not excluding female to male? What do you guys think they would think about this?
Transsexual is seen as a derogatory term by some people and often times, the people who the term applies to still keep their original genitals.
The same goes for transgendered people. Not all of them go through surgery and it's perfectly fine for a biological male with a female gender identity to be considered transgendered even if she never goes through surgery.
So really, your question applies to a small portion of who you're taking about.
Not to mention that while it is good to honor tradition, this is a case of 'different times, differen't cases'. We're talking human beliefs here and humans can only interpret the divine, not experience it in a raw manner. In a time were transgendered people are becoming more accepted, I doubt people would still believe a female without her original parts would be prevented from having an afterlife unless they were close minded. Sometimes it's good that things change.
It was not just the Egyptians, it would probably not surprise you that the bible says the same thing!
The penis and testes are a mans ability to create, it is the one thing he has which makes him like a God i.e. a being which can create (not being sexist, women are obviously credited as well, our example is about men however).
I would imagine a lot of respect was held for the genitals of both sexes, and the power believed to be contained therein respected. Moreso than today when we only see the creative effects when we wish.
Since people can now change their sex and we have a greater understanding of our personality, the beliefs would probably be different. We now know that some people believe they are born into the wrong body and are a different gender- will they be denied into the afterlife, I would say- I don't know!
Not because I am a bigot, but because nobody knows, the Ancient Egyptians, in all their wisdom, didn't know! But I don't see why not.
In the bible passage one could interpret it in a way in which also means a man who had a vasectomy cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.....again, that option was not available at the time.
Okay, thank you. And I wasn't aware that some see trans as derogatory. I was just wondering what would happen if you inserted some ancient Egyptians into today and they met a male who completed her transformation. (I know that sounds weird to refer to a male as a she but I know that not all persons with XY chromosomes are men.)
Re: Transsexual/Transgender By: Brysing Moderator / Adept
Post # 7 Mar 16, 2015
Maiden Crow it's not quite true about Egyptians removing the testes of their enemies. Yes, the belief was that only a "whole" body could go to the "after life"; but any part of the body would do,even a finger! The penis was cut off so that the warrior could "prove" how many of the enemy he had killed. Women would often go onto the battlefield, and cut off the penises of any dead men they found still intact.Then they could present these "trophies" to their husbands and/or lovers.
The Pharaoh, Horemhab, didn't like the practice. He said that a warrior was a hero if he killed one, or twenty!
Many cultures took such personal "trophies". Some took ears! The native Americans took scalps!
Of course it depends on the person you're speaking with, but The Gay And Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation website has some references about what is or is not a derogatory term:
https://www.glaad.org/publications/reference
And transgender and transsexual are both accepted terminologies according to this organization:
http://www.glaad.org/reference/transgender
From what I've understood of Kemetic Reconstructionists, a number of their deities can actually be very genderfluid according to historical epithets and mythology. (As well as, of course, Kemetic deities being associated with animals and/or humans and/or concepts in society…all wrapped up in a deity or deities, all very fluid.) Example: Atum, the Great He-She.
That is a literal translation, by the way. "He-She" is now of course derogatory to say to people.
Anyway, it sure seems as if Ancient Egyptians might have had more respect for non-binary gendered people than modern people do, but that might just be wishful thinking to somebody with modern values. I'm not that well-versed in Egyptian paganism, although it is I think one of the most popular branches of paganism, whether Reconstructionist or influential of Thelema or anything else, so it shouldn't be too difficult to find more information about that!
looking at this now, I find many grammatical errors in here. First, "transsexual" isn't really used and, anyway, it's an adjective, NOT a noun. "Transgender" is the correct term, but, again, it's an adjective. just so ya'll know.
