I was simply explaining catholic belief. I did not state it as truth, but wanted to simply mention that according to catholic religion, Satan and lucifer are the same being.
Also, there are two events where angels fell. One is recorded in the book of enoch, but that was the second fall. Another is located within the book of revelations. Though you are right, he is not truly stated to be lucifer, he was considered to once be the 'brightest in the sky'
Also, he is mentioned in Ezekiel 28; 11-17, Were it is stated that the same figure who appeared in the Garden of Eden, was once a cherub, who choose not to bow before God.
Another appearance is mentioned in Isaiah 14:12–17, where it speaks of the fall of the 'Morning Star, The bringer of Dawn'. Now, Lucifer was, from the Latin translation, translated into Morning Star and Bringer of Light, which is then used to mention a Fallen Figure.
Now, I will NOT say that this is all truth, for to do so will be denying ones faith and supporting another's, which i believe to be wrong. I simply wish to show you what catholic religion seems to believe. Do I believe in such things? does it matter? Do i wish you to believe such things? No, i could care less, simply see that Satan, According To Catholic Belief, was once A figure who was called the Morning Star, another term which Lucifer is defined into.
I would just like to remind all... these things are all based on belief, even if they are written down. It does not mean you should not believe them, but it does not make them fact either. The ten commandments were supposedly written down (I cant remember if there was proof or not) but that does not mean that Moses was really of sound mind and that he really heard God speak. Bill Clinton claimed he never cheated on his spouse, that was recorded and they proved that wrong. I wrote a book about Siberian Tigers when I was ten, and that was just what I believed of them. I am just stating, all of it is a matter of translation and opinion. Try not to get so worked up over any of it. Love, light and blessings to all the universes beings :)
Perrych on the other hand...not so much. Easy there! Just take a few breaths and relax.
@Dark
I understand where you are coming from. I went to Catholic school and even took Catholicism in college. It is actually very interesting to learn from clergy and than a theologian about the same subject! Amazing what the difference can make.
I'm very familiar with the beliefs. Thank you for taking the time out to give those quotes. I appreciate the effort you put into your post.
As I said in the beginning of my first post, I do hope you take no offense. I mean nothing against you. I get frustrated because it seems that in modern times, all faiths are allowed to be twisted and changed in any way deemed fit, regardless of whether the original foundation of such faiths intended an entirely different interpretation. Yet they continue to remain categorized as the same title. This even goes for most of the "new age" twists to spirituality.
There are scholars who have taken apart the original translation of the bible and proven how many mistranslations have been made throughout the years. Yet people continue to hold onto the mistakes. If someone proved to me that the original writers of a book I held dear meant something entirely different from what I had thought to be true, I would be excited to gain a perfect interpretation.
As for Catholicsm, I'm sure Saint Peter is rolling in his grave! It has the potential to be a nice religion, in the possession of people well researched or just plainly with a good head on their shoulders.
@Perrych
I take you as a person who reads and interprets things as literally as possible. I am one of those people who take apart stories and ask myself questions. Some would say I attempt to "read between the lines" within reason. As with the Bible or any spiritual stories, I believe they should be reflected on, without destorting the details of the story itself.
I do know the angels made love to the humans. But were the other angels angry because they procreated or were they angry because they felt angels were too superior to be mixing blood with carnal humans? The book, to me, showed a strong distaste for humankind. I'm sure the angels didn't just walk up and jump into bed. There was more interaction going on there. And what of the children that could have come from this? Would they not have inherited the innate knowledge of the angels? I felt very sorry for the angels in that book. I felt they were wronged. It was like reading a good novel and your favorite character dies and the one you didn't like lives happily ever after. I was not pleased with that story at all. Its a very anti-human story, and being a human, I took offense.
well ya see i dont want people talking about my pagan gods and goddesses so i dont talk about the other religions i just wanted ino on this and it is a hex ive been researching it and i just need to know wat it does
Well lets take a look at the name itself. Lucifer which has been proven to mean Light Bearer. Touch so we know that he could be "touching those its used on". The hex part could mean that Lucifer is brining Justice upon those the spell is used on. So all together it could be a spell to bring forth Lucifer's Judgment upon those the spell is cast on. So i would avoid casting it on yourself since i doubt you want to smite yourself. Also I am a Spiritual Satanist and we see Lucifer as Satan due to the fact he was called Satan by the jews and Satan in Hebrew means (Adversary). But Satan has so many names we go by his original Enki. I could go into a long speal into the connections with Satan and Enki but im here to answer a question not to start an argument.
BlackSunn thank you and i see you dont want to fight and fighting is dangerous when it comes to magic and a war is about to start with the magi and christians, jews, etc. so i dont recomend it just yet
I'm sorry for what may have seeemed like an angry response. It's just that I have gotten so many messages in the past critisizing my coven and beliefs that it's just frustrating. The book of Enoch says there's a reason God didn't want angels to mate like we do, I forget what that reason is. I think it was something about them having a specific job to do and how their actions show how little obedience they had toward God. The book never says anything about other angels being mad. It says that God was mad. It also says the children or "giants" were taught by their fathers how to wage war against each other. An art that was never meant to be known by humans and has since caused much trouble. The giants were constantly waging war and engaging in acts of cannibalism. They soon found humans easier targets and started slaughtering them for food. The surviving humans prayed for help. Their prayers where heard by the Archangels Michael, Raphael, Gabriel, and Uriel who all worked together to help end the reign of the giants. Think of the act of angels and humans mating as beastiality almost. They weren't meant to be together and so problems were created. All the angels were punished for disobeying God. There's nothing remotely wrong with that considering the mess they made.
I didn't catch the cannibalism or perhaps it slipped my mind. Cannibalism has been around for 500,000 years. But it is and was seen as a huge taboo for many cultures, so to add "cannabalism" into the mix would surely cause disgust and possibly even anger for the reader. It actually has extreme ties to magick and religion because most acts of cannibalism was indeed a religious/spiritual act, not for food. Many would eat parts of their dead enemies as a means to absorb or take from them their vitality/strength. Or part of their family's remains to r Parts of Africa were reknown for canabalistic tribes, and that is just below the "holy lands".
However, I notice the trend of such additions in such hebrew script. They insure that you dislike their enemy. This happens in historical scripts all over the world as well. Each side tells the story as though they are perfect and their enemies are monsters. I always take this into consideration.
I interpreted the "giants" to be figurative, as a way of saying something like warlord, king, etc. Back then, a king was likely to be on the front lines of a battle unless they reached an age where they could no longer fight. The hybrid children taught men about authority and war. Gilgemesh, one of the names of these "giants" is the name of a king of Ur who wasn't very nice to his people. This is found in an epic poem in ancient Sumerian (Mesopotamia--the earliest civilization understood by history), far older than the dead sea scrolls.
Maybe I interpreted it too metaphorically, or perhaps this was just a very interesting overview of the Book of Enoch from a figurative and literal perspective.
I really enjoyed this discussion! It isn't often I find someone willing to talk about such things. Thank you Perrych. =)
i believe Lucifer and Satan are two different angels because of 2 facts 1:when i summoned Lucifer i felt his energy and it was completley different from the energy of Satan and 2 there was a war between Belial and Satan for the title of who will rule over all darkness and Belial with his fallen angels were fighting Satan and his fallen angels and at some point Belial won the war and Lucifer gived him the title of Lord of nord king of earth and lord of darkness if Satan was Lucifer then he would have won thats what i believe and i did not make this up i found it after i documented myself with demonology and Lucifer and Satan are considered the same fallen angel by the bible because God named Lucifer Satan but that doesen't mean its literally Satan means accuser so he called him accuser but Lucifer did not like that name so he give it to another fallen angel who has lesser power then him thats what i believe
