Shaman Sickness (NTS)

Nothing in this life includes only rainbows and happiness. Actually having been in dificult situations and overcoming them is what builds our strenght and experience. I have gone through some dificult situations myself and in the end i raised through my own ashes. I do not follow shamanism though.
i loved the post and all the inputs in it..it is great and will give knowledge and hope to everyone who reads it.

What a great thread! I am starting to learn the technical terms of shamanism. I have had powers that I kept to myself after being laughed at so many times, even by family. The education of your words has told me why and how I came to be. I was in car accident when I was young, and was in coma 3 or so days, as well as broken bones and lacerated kidney. My mom said I came out different than before I got hurt. Not having any guidance, I went through life being 'different'. I think at a global stage. I feel the earth hurting. I 'see' things. I have helped many without even a thought of what I would get out of it, except that it makes me happy to do so. I am too weird. My sisters laugh at my beliefs, and I only said a little to them. They know nothing of my being witch/shaman, and the path I choose to live by. The internet with all it's info is what made me discover what I truly am. You cannot believe the weight that was lifted off me when I found the truth in words, in definition, and in life. I recognize the sickness symptoms that you talked about. It just makes my beliefs stronger, and I am more determined than anything to learn about it all. I will continue helping people as I always have, but with more confidence. Thank you.
Yes, lets keep this thread going...Blessed Be...

Aphoristic- your post made me a little curious, because generally when you and I compare your Aztec concepts to my Norse concepts we find increasingly similarities between them- so I did some more digging.

Raven K proposes a third path for NTS shaman sickness which he calls "the Art Road". (I'm assuming this is UPG, or unusual personal gnosis, on his part- but it's fascinating all the same.. I would love to see some PCPG or peer-corroborated personal gnosis on it as well!). He says, " This [path] was described by someone as being the road for the spirit-worker who has dedicated themselves to some Art. They live it, they breathe it, it is their identity and the source of all the joy and creativity in their world. The Third Road forces them into a position where they must give it up entirely and walk away, never to touch it again. I have little more information on this Road - unfortunately - but I would assume that it would lie close to, or lead to, the Madness Road. (There is also that the Roads cross each other. Severe illness can be accompanied by bouts of mental instability, and mental illnesses can have physical side effects. Most cases of shaman sickness will involve a lot of one and a little of another.) "

It's really awesome to see people coming and sharing some of their experiences. I can't express how wonderful that is! I love the opportunity to share and learn from others who have been through the same things- connecting with similar minds is a great thing, and I think that helps us all when we walk these paths. Since other people have shared some really interesting, meaningful personal experience and since many people already know about my health- I might as well.

I started becoming sick roughly a year and a half or more ago- or at least this is when the symptoms became prominent and noticeable. At this point in my life, I was just beginning to try and be open about my practices within Heathenry and teach Norse magicks to others- but I was still "in the closet" about a lot of my workings. My lungs were the first thing to get hit- and get hit badly. I was being treated for what they thought was tuberculosis- but nothing was really adding up, and the treatment wasn't going like planned. When it suddenly seemed to improve and get better, I just kind of shrugged it off and didn't think twice. It wasn't until later that it seemed to get worse. And when it did, I felt very compelled to be open about my practices and to explore them more in depth, especially seidhr and pathwalking. I found out that I had systemic lupus erythematosus, as well as a cluster of smaller less serious illnesses that had developed seemingly out of nowhere. When the illness hit a crescendo, I was in the hospital for a few weeks teetering in and out of a coma, going through a stroke, and nearing death at some points. But: When the coma was over, and I came out of the hospital, I felt great. My spirituality, beliefs, practice and magickal workings had never felt stronger. I was so inspired that I bought up several books on seidhr, galdr, deity/spirit working and got to writing stuff again. For me, it felt like through this entire process several doors had been opened. And now, I am completely open about my practice and have no problem sharing it. :)

I can't say for certain that I "walked Hel's Path", as I truly don't know and not everyone who has these close calls is actually going through shaman sickness, but I whole-heartedly think that my experience ended up being a positive thing. It's really shaped me into a different person and given me some personal inner strength that I needed to continue on exploring my workings and practices, and continuing on down my path.

Thank you for sharing that, White!

No, thank you for this fantastic thread and all that you have shared Personified. =)

It's refreshing to see an active topic that has a more advanced subject.

I've mentioned before about Native American shaman "deaths".

The idea is to experience the the touch of death in whatever way, as to be between the worlds or be fully spiritual (and when you return to your body, a piece of you remains behind, allowing you to access both worlds fully). It is a test of strength. Willpower is extremely important for what shamans do. Those who die from these tests are thought to not have the strength to be a shaman, and those who survive them, become even stronger from their success in overcoming death.

I've read of quite a few versions of the way death is reached from around the world.

One involves literally lying in a grave for a few days in trance. That is definitely a test of mental strength as well as physical. You must have no fear, remain perfectly still, and fast in a deep hole in the ground as if a corpse. If I remember correctly, they even slightly cover the body in dirt (leaving the face obviously uncovered), so there is the feeling of being buried. I always considered this one as one of the more pleasant ways. The only problem is digging a six foot deep hole and not gaining police attention!

Others do become physically ill, usually involving a high fever that causes hallucinations.

I heard of a tribe (I believe it was S. America) where they actually take a poison to cause illness and the one who survived became the tribe's new shaman (I would never advise that).

And still others journey to find their "death". One account spoke of their spiritual body being taken apart and rebuilt by the spirits.

Of course shamans couldn't just wait around for a near death experience. But if someone experienced one at a young age, they would be considered for training.

I do not believe the madness path has any similar form in Native American shamanism. But I have always believed that some people are misdiagnosed for mental illness when they are merely extremely spiritually receptive and can't handle it. Overcoming the insanity caused by a chaotic and intense gift would in fact allow someone to harness a very strong gift entirely. So I can definitely see where the madness path may apply.

I research the 'Art road' that you mentioned and most results took me to Raven Kaldera's page, from which you quoted. However, I did ask on one of my Toltec Nagual forums if anyone had heard of anything similar and I found some information which may be beneficial in furthering our understanding of the 'Art path'.

As you quoted from Raven,

''This [path] was described by someone as being the road for the spirit-worker who has dedicated themselves to some Art. They live it, they breathe it, it is their identity and the source of all the joy and creativity in their world.''

I read an entry in this case, the art of which one became absorbed in was dance, specifically ritualistic dance variations. It provided them with such joy and inspiration, however eventually leaded them to suffer from illness, and it does seem like it can eventually lead to the madness road after consuming their whole persona.

''Dance is something deeply important to me. It's my career and my passion and my love. I hate the crap it puts me through- the stress and the diets, the constant war with my body and image, the way it forces me to make pointless small talk with strangers despite my social anxiety. But I suffer through all the misery for those beautiful, shining moments onstage, those moments with the music pounding and the lights on me, when I am glorious and invulnerable and untouchable.

Then the health problems started. I'd always had them, slowing me down, but around last November it became an onslaught. Flu after flu, where I was coughing too much to stretch, let alone dance; headaches that made light and noise unbearable; turned ankles, then a pinched nerve in my left foot in January; mysterious back and shoulder pains; and last month, an eye surgery that's kept me out of work ever since while I engage in physical therapy to correct my posture.

Of course there was divination. I didn't do it myself, worried my emotions would cloud the results; I went to other practitioners. And over and over, I was told the answer I didn't want to hear: this road will end in tragedy if you pursue it. You are going to hurt yourself, badly. You will break yourself. You need to rip the band-aid off quickly so it hurts less. Give it up.

This came at a time when I was also deepening my spiritual practice. I consulted my brothers and my kami, I talked to my working partners. Could be shaman sickness, one said blithely, and pointed out a throwaway paragraph in a larger essay. Maybe it's the Art Road?''

The entry then goes on to mention collaborating dance with trance work and magical practice, as well as possibly being influenced by some deities from the Japanese culture. It's really interesting. If you want to read more, here's the link.

http://heliokinetic.wordpress.com/tag/art-road/

The 'art path' is really intriguing to me, as I once experienced a period as was described, however with playing the piano and music, to the point of obsession and taking over my life. I was ill with degenerative condition once again, but didn't think much of it. Eventually, I started incorporating music into deity work and aspects of shamanic practices, and since then I felt increasingly better and full of vitality.

I still play the piano frequently and integrate music into my magical practices however it no longer consumes me as a person.

WhiteRav3n- thank you for providing some of the Native American influences and beliefs in relation to this. I found it extremely interesting and it has sparked my curiosity.

I was thinking how we can relate shamanistic sickness with the Tarot .As many of us know that Tarot(22 Big Arcana ) actually represent the inner journey of the practicioner (magician or shaman ).The journey starts with the Fool card and ends up with The World .I interprete that we all start enthusyastic and kinda blind but with enough courage to kinda walk ourselves in something unknown (or another power do that for us ).Interesting part for us in the entire journey are the existance of the the cards The Hanged man that we all know it has to do with sacrifice and difficulties in the name of knowledge .Then of course there is the Death card that represents dying and starting living again but with new perception of the world .Through sacrifice and dying on the road toward knowledge and becoming one with universe we reach The Temperance only afterwards to journey through The Devil card and the Tower .Devil has to do with fighting our ego and our bad habits ,also all desires then we can not give up upon and that chain us .But after we have won agains our own demons and desires ,we reach the rock bottom the Tower .In this phase of the journey all old is destroyed and burnt .Out of the ashes The Star is born like phoenix that bear hope for the future through renewal .Stars also are symbols of life because all that is in existance came in existance when old star died and new was formed but through the process of its death new elemenst were created .So Universe also repeats this spiritual cycle .The process of dying and renewal can be seen in nature also constantly .
As we know also Tarot is also the road of knowledge that help you to see all aspects of you to understand them in order to become one with the Universe (The World ).

Now there is a lot of argument about the source of the Tarot .Some people say that it has been created in ancient Egypt and only then appeared in Italy as playing cards .
Once i was given very interesting book that is called Book of Thoth .The book has been written of bulgarian magician but it is based on original hystorical egyptian manyscript that has been cited from another international magicians .
As we know Thoth is egyptian deity and has to do with knowledge .
In the book the author follows the journey of the neophite that is about to be initiated in the egyptian esoteric tradition .It describes all of the phases that he goes though and they match pretty much the Tarot(Big Arcana ) itself ,and the difficulties similar to described from you guys .Before they undertook the journey they had to meditate over this 22 painted pictures on the wall of the temple .Of course some of the neophites never make it some of them died fron hunger because they could not throw themselves in so called lake of death .Only few were enough strong to pass all of the difficulties and dangers and to actually really become initiate into this arcanic knowledge .
Unfortunately the book is written in bulgarian so even if i share it with you guys you will not be able to read it .But there must be somewhere english version of the translation of the ancient apocrypha manuscript over the internet .
And i myself need to reread it since i have read it before maybe 6 years ago so i can refresh my memory about it .Decided it will be interesting to add up this information here .I am very firm believer that this roads and paths is something presented in many traditions and paths and incorporated in them to certain degree .Which then really make it in archytypical idea .As we know the word Arcana itself comes from the word arcanus (secret ,hidden ,esoteric )or keeper of secrets .
Also i think you will enjoy watching the movie "The fountain "
Not many can make out of it any sense but i did .Also there is song of the soundrtack that i really love it is called "Death is road to awe ".The entire movie is incorporated will all the ideas we have discussed above ,and music really matches it .

Here is link for the music
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FDAkpQSJVA

Nothing can describe how much awesomeness is going on in this thread right now. I've got warm fuzzies all over :)

I'm new to this forum so forgive me for not sharing myself personally. Here's what's happening to me now. I believe it to be related to shamanism.

I'm entering some kind of phase. Ego death is nothing new to me. I've experienced several of them. Detachment from persona seems to be a special talent of mine. But, this time it's different. It was like a karmic blast spewed all over me and the people I know. My ears were ringing and my sight was blurred. I thought I had lost everything. But when I came to, I found love all around me. In the distance I can hear shouts from the crooked ones who's selfish intentions left them bitter. But I have so much, more than I have ever known. I never knew it because I never tried to keep anything for myself. Now that I'm healing, I feel more powerful than ever. Like nothing can hurt me. Everything I have read and everything I have experienced has come to a point of revelation. I have so much to do now.

OK.OK. So, I'm being dramatic :P But in a sense that's how it went down.

Okay! I'm going to break this reply up a bit as I want to try and comment on a few of the replies on here all in one post!

" One involves literally lying in a grave for a few days in trance. That is definitely a test of mental strength as well as physical. You must have no fear, remain perfectly still, and fast in a deep hole in the ground as if a corpse. If I remember correctly, they even slightly cover the body in dirt (leaving the face obviously uncovered), so there is the feeling of being buried. I always considered this one as one of the more pleasant ways. The only problem is digging a six foot deep hole and not gaining police attention! "

Oh how I love seeing correlations between practices! In response to what you said above, White: In Northern Tradition Shamanism there is a practice we call "Mound Sitting", which typically involves either sitting atop a grave or actually sitting in a grave for a time period ranging from one day to a handful of days. What you said was also pretty similar to Going Under. I may work on writing an article over that next! It's fascinating for sure. I have a desire to combine Mound Sitting, Seidhr and Val-galdr to see what kind of experience it could provoke. For Mound Sitting you can read a more indepth description of it here:

http://www.uppsalaonline.com/uppsala/mound.htm

And thanks for that awesome link to that entry, Aph! I'm definitely going to set aside some time to read it. It sounds similar to the other things I was looking into and reading over!

Artin- I think the idea of relating shaman sickness to tarot. It's interesting, for sure. And I love the way you interpreted it. It fits the situation.

As for you, gypsybard, thank you for sharing that information with us! It's so neat to see people sharing their own personal experiences! I appreciate it. :)

I would like to make clear that I do practice cherokee medicine but I don't associate myself with the term "shaman". Many Native Americans do not. I use the term in posts because most people do not understand what a medicine (wo)man is. Although I'm told I'm very much one, I don't even accept a title because of the way I was brought up.

I believe it is a much more subtle path than most think. In fact, when I was taught it, it was like being taught how to cook or tend a garden. There is no separation between life, spirit, and medicine. Everything was a lesson, everything had more meaning than met the eye. I just saw it as poetry not magick. It may seem odd to many, but growing up, I didn't know I was being taught anything special. It was done so naturally. It just was. I knew of no other way. This situation called for that. That happens because of this. Don't do that, do this. THIS IS THE WAY IT IS DONE. End of story.

Only later, when I began speaking with other Cherokees and doing my own research out of curiousity that I understood what had been done. My family knew of my gift to see, hear and sense was strong. It was more than obvious when I was a child, and they always told me I had my cherokee great grandmothers spirit with me. That they could see her in me. I never did understand it until I was much older. I went into studying witchcraft on my own (much to my family's dismay) because I didn't understand that I had been taught the ways of cherokee belief and medicine.

I enjoyed learning witchcraft but as I get older, I find myself falling away from it. I use somethings because I find them useful and don't see why I should limit myself. My journey allowed me to see the universal truths that link many paths.

Most Native Americans don't understand me and think I'm "neo" because of the influences of witchcraft and other magick practices within my work. But in truth I'm just someone who was a soul searcher that realized a little late that I was always home. But my travels taught me many wonderful things, things that I would never have discovered had I not ventured away from the Cherokee ways.

I apologize if I strayed off topic, but with all the shaman subjects I've been writing in lately, I felt it should be explained. Plus Personified wrote about her life pulling her to her path, I wanted to share mine too.