Do Goetic fellows possess

Amon the demon from my expierience is the same as Amon in ancient Egypt deities. I saw him as the god Amon.

I think you must be careful in stating that is what schizophrenia is. I would say the majoority of cases of schizophrenia are actual mental illness cased by a variety of factors- none of which supernatural.

This being said, it would not surprise me if some cases were spiritually caused.

I was going to mention a few cases of ritual possession before, but you are also correct- it is more like channeling and so I didn't bother.

"I think you must be careful in stating that is what schizophrenia is. I would say the majority of cases of schizophrenia are actual mental illness cased by a variety of factors- none of which supernatural."

I believe I have no need to be careful stating my "personal theory" as to what is schizophrenia. Why must I be careful?

What is mental illness? Seeing that psychology is less than 100 years old and still figuring things out, psychology is actually a pseudo science containing a bunch of "schools of thought" that all fight each other. Only when biology gets involved is it considered backed up by evidence and the information is more in line with how the brain works in terms of cognition, creativity, and behavior more than anything. So I ask again, what is mental illness? Is it biological? Behavioral? Nature, nurture, conditioned, or based off phallic envy (Freud)? According to Jung, metaphysical and mental tie hand in hand and we all have a universal consciousness! Isn't that "supernatural"? *cue spooky music*

What is supernatural? Coming from a magician, I find the use of the word supernatural laughable. I like you Hadit, and we normal agree to disagree, but this part gets to me a little.

How is spirit or magick "super" natural? Is it not all natural? Does it not exist without human intervention? Is it not an unseen force? I can't see oxygen, gravity, velocity, etc. does it mean it is supernatural? Supernatural has such a nasty sound to it. It's a way for people to make something more mysterious and mystical than it really is. If you really are a man of science than you wouldn't consider anything in the world anything less than natural, including your own practice--which involves magick and spirits. Humans (even the ones that go to their human created universities spouting their human "truths") do not know it all. No one bestowed upon them the knowledge of the universe. They are not in any way verifiable omnipotent beings. They are still discovering new things about our world and how it works every single day. They also revise what they thought they knew constantly. Just because they can make a fancy gadget called technology doesn't mean they can unlock the universe. And it's rather arrogant and ignorant to assume that just because something has yet to be explained that it is beyond this world. If mental illness was so well understood, why can't we cure it? Why are there mental hospitals and prisons full of people popping pills that just cover up their problem with mind numbing chemicals? Ha! Humans are far from understanding the nature of mental illness. So why is my theory any less valid?

I would trust a shaman or medicine man over a psychiatrist any day of the week.

The one edited by Aleister Crowley. That's the one I ordered.

There are many possible causes to arriving at the same illness. There is evidence to suggest brain dysfunction can cause such things, genetics, or ones personal environment. It could be a maximum of one of those factors or a combination of the three.

I don't listen to any 'science' unless there are either numbers or another objective bit of data to back it up. Freud is no longer even considered to be correct in any of his thoeries by the majority of psychologists. (Although, in a repressed society,, which we don't really have any more, I believe some may have been relevant.)

I wasn't trying to denigrate your beliefs or state that they were any less likely to happen. However badly phrased, I believe there are many causes for mental illness and whilst one may be spiritual in nature, I do not think that all cases of schizophrenia are caused by spiritual problems, however, some may.

I personally do not like psychiatrists either, I would recommend talking therapy rather than invasive chemicals which kill the person from the inside.

I believe if many people studied schizophrenics from their respective disciplines instead of pumping them with chemicals we may be closer to expounding the mystery. At the minute we have some evidence for environmental factors, but also brain deformity and genetics (Or a combination of the three).

My point was, yes, some people who have schizophrenia because of spiritual things, some may not. Just as a cut on my arm may have been inflicted by a knife or sadistic person scraping me with the edge of a spoon. (In lack of a better example).

The mind is a delicate thing in some people and many things can have an effect on the mind. Schizophrenia is not my interest area and so I will admit I only know the very surface.

@Goetickid,

There are better editions, and as much as I like the mans other works, that is largely not his own and the introduction was written at a time in his life when he was embracing skepticism to the fullest.

He has a theory in his introduction about the sigils activating an area of the brain and unlocking that area allowing the apparent externalization of that area into the triangle i.e. the spirits are a part of the mind.

I personally feel that is rubbish- the only difference in the brain activation would be the visual areas of the brain, every other area would be just as active if you were looking at a painting.

The best edition I have read so far is Poke Runyon's, I believe he has a documentary on youtube as well. I have also begun reading another version, however, have not made up my mind on that one yet.

I don't want to take the thread into schizophrenia instead of what the OP concerning Goetic spirits and possession, so I'll keep it as short and simple as I can (and this is hard for me because I never do short and simple!) ;p

The main point isn't that I believe schizophrenia is caused by involuntary channeling but rather that the way their brain works causes them to be more susceptible to it. This in turn forms many of the "symptoms" that it is typically classified with. I believe it is not a cause but an effect from the way the brain works within these people.

If we go to a psychologist right now and tell them what we have both experienced as magick practitioners, we would also be labeled as delusional among other things. I would lie through my teeth! And we trust these same "expert" opinions with others that are simply being honest about what they experience?

But even my biological psychology professor in college lectured that schizophrenia was a catch all term for multiple neurosis' rolled into one. That every case was so very different. That's why the studies done on those with schizophrenia never render an impressive percentage. They're finally coming close to discovering that the common factor is the difficulty in externally observed imitation. Almost all of them are far less influenced by social cues which is why they develop and learn slower as children and display "odd behavior". They are more naturally human and less socially/culturally controlled so they are considered "abnormal". It's a shame really.

Who is Sitri?

They do not.One is that they are too strong,the body would die,and another is that they are respectul awesome dudes who don't usually harm without a good reason

Only lower beings do that or request to take away one's energy. Highter beings do not need or require none.

They usually love to teach and help humans.