Every religion has their own beliefs. In the Beginning there was God, in the Beginning there were Gods, in the Beginning there was nothing, and some even say there was no beginning. A constant question is, "what was here before that?" What was here before God, Gods, how could nothing lead to something, and since all things must end how could their be no beginning? And who here could answer these questions honestly?
An important thing to remember is that just because a book, a writing, a website, or better yet(since this is where all things previously mentioned originate) a person says something does not make it true. Our religious beliefs are rarely, if ever, facts because if they were facts they could be proven. And they can't.
Since the beginning is a topic that we would senselessly argue about while using "he said she said" debate methods I have a better question; Which came first, the Human or the God?
Nothingness came before anything, within nothingness there is a absence of everything, thus creating darkness, now how can there suddenly be something from nothing? It is the concept of Khaos, for there to be nothing there must be something and visa versa, it is the first balance created within the universe before the universe was even on a etheric level, now to understand this you can't think in a linear train of thought cause if you do you will get lost in BS paradigms and religions, and reality, the universe, elements and gods have been around much longer than man or the religions they hold onto as a crutch to not have to face reality for what it is. thus now we have something and nothing, the moment there was something there had to be more to it, because what is the point of something being but not doing, if it something did nothing eternally would it truly be something and not just nothing? Thus we have nothing, and something, the something distinguishes itself from the nothingness by having one key distinction, conciousness, awareness, now conciousness, primal conciousness needs some sort of form to once again distinguish itself from the nothingess which surrounds it, thus it coats itself in what surrounds it, which is darkness, thus conciousness now has form, because it used some of the dark which made up the nothingness and converted it into something there is now suddenly potential, thus we have nothing, something, and potential, now with something and potential you can do anything, especially if you are the first conciousness to form itself from the nothingness, once again you ask but how could it, i say once again to research the concept of Khaos and even the chaos theory to explain how within any and all systems there will always be a random glitch which can trigger certain chain of events which will snowball and build more and more momentum as it goes, now in my personal opinion reality, etheric, the universe as a whole as everyone knows it or thinks they know it is due to one or two khaotic moments which touched and snowballed and built more and more momentum. i can go on about this a whole lot more to make it link into science or religion for you, but unfortunately the science side no one can back up because reality wasn't created by science, science merely took reality and started labeling everything in it and whatever didn't fit within their little box of perception was disgarded as occult or mystisism. to begin to grasp the beginning you need to grasp infinity within all directions in a 3rd dimension and then inwardly into a 4th dimension and then from there back through into the 5th dimension, 3rd dimension being physical reality, 4th being etheric and spirit, and 5th being the level of existence where things began and trickled downward, once again when a person sees how reality trickled down through the different level you notice the snowball effect of khaos. i say find your proof, because you can, and you can hold it physically in your hand, yet still science will disregard it, denial can be a horrid monkey.
"for there to be nothing there must be something" defies the very concept of their being nothing for if there is nothing there is not something and if there is something there is not nothing.
"unfortunately the science side no one can back up because reality wasn't created by science"
You're right about that, reality created science. What you have said is the point of this thread; no one can back it up. There is no proof of what you are saying, it is simply your belief.
"science merely took reality and started labeling everything in it and whatever didn't fit within their little box of perception was disgarded as occult or mystisism."
No, science classified it as unprovable. And it is. It was Humans and Extremist Religious individuals who classified it as occult or mystic.
Thank you for answering the question, Warrior, and I agree that the God/Gods came before the Humans who believed in them.
Rag, you are thinking only in a straight line at the moment, the universe and reality is based on some clear paradoxes which shouldn't be able to exist, yet they do, the concept of antimatter is a very good example of this, because isn't the opposite of matter nothingness, yet it is classed even though it can not yet be proven on a physical level only on a scientific level.This is why i said there was nothing first, and there was nothing for infinity untill a single moment of khaos, after that moment there was something, reality back then was a system of nothingness, the system glitched, a more feasable answer i can't give ;)
When something becomes unprovable to science it is disgarded, the moment something is disgarded in such a manner it leaves it open to be torn to pieces by the religious nuts and people you mentioned, i personally blame both science and religion for slowing the human evolution.
if we can continue this please Rag, because i like this topic and if nothing else it may help people look at some other boxes of perception or maybe make em lose their boxes ;)
In saying that Dark Emp. you are stating the concept that the universe is it's own living being with full conciousness beyond that of the gods (primal conciousness, not universal conciousness as known by the masses), in saying that you are saying the universe is god because the concept of the prime creator as god is whatever conciousness created reality, nothing wrong with that, but then it brings us back to the question of what was there before the universe? ;)
with every beginning there is an end. and with every ending there is a new beginning. what if old universe create this universe and the process is in cycle. i think without human there is no god and without god there is no human.
All I'm saying is that since it can not be proven it can not be called fact, it is belief.
Took me awhile to dig this up. My poor thread died. :(
"Truth as Perspective"-
http://www.spellsofmagic.com/read_post.html?post=162640
That thread explains what I'm saying here.
"the universe is it's own living being with full conciousness"
Have you looked into Jediism? This is a belief of theirs as well, only "the universe" would be more specifically the Life Energy that flows through the Universe.
In the begining there were forces,mostly devoid of all today know energies.Each force developed into god(conciseness energy),and plain energy(unconsciousness energy).Example of force is khaos,balance,void..
Aside from agreeing with warrior
I have few of mine own thoughts put into this.
At first there was nothingness.The nothingness was neither cold nor warm.Nor light nor dark,it was simply nothing.However it existed,a nothingness is nonexistent matter yet it existed.That paradox created certain focus,from focus space was created.Since nothingness could not sustain all space equally cause of imbalance,lesser unfilled spaced were filed with new energy of void.Void was emptiness.Again imabalance kicked in.From void another darkness spawned,it was suppose to balance the space,that why it was khaos.Khaos is nothing,plain shadow yet has potential to create everything,it was everything yet nothing.
However potential could not come to manifest,so pure force of manifestation was created,lets call it balance.Theres more,but don't feel like writing more.
Its bit confusing but by reflecting on it you see certian raw and relative truth,don't quote it by pieces,because only all of it together make sense.
Most think that everything was build,created because of perfection or prefect being.Opposite to it i believe everything came into being via imperfection,imbalance.
