hellfire and paganists

To Suliana:

Many of the ritual practices found in modern Wicca and neo paganism are born from Gardener's and other Occultist's study of Occult practices of the 16th-19th centuries, which were in turn influenced heavily other grimoric texts; many of which were heavily influenced by Hebrew magic; invoking of God within your magic was a way to avoid being burned or called a heretic. As was one of the most prevalent varieties of magic that managed to survive the spread of Christianity, it was one of the few sources of magic available for men like Gardner and his predecessors to read aside from what little can be found past down through the generations.

Beyond this, the Druids themselves interacted and likely shared ideas with Hebrew theologians to some extent. The ancients moved around a lot. The Roman empire made travel easy and safe, which allowed mystical thought to travel world wide. This in turn became the ancient equivalent of the internet, linking together learned people and mystics throughout the known world. The Jewish Rabbi and the Druidic priest likely regarded each other as savages, or at best thought their own God(s) superior, but with the spread of ideas across the roman empire neither could help but to adapt slightly to the coming of such theory and idea. That is the nature of mankind. "Oh hey, that's a makes sense" is not a new human thought. Even if they never interacted one on one, the creep of concepts through two influential cultures within the empire could not have helped but to have been observed and assimilated. Much of this mingled craft evolved into alchemy and other medieval science, which in turn influences all modern magical craft, including ritual aspects of nature revering faith.

Honestly, unless you practice Native American shamanism or some isolated Asian faith, like Shinto, it is likely that your craft has over the ages seen the influence of formal Cabalistic (hebrew) magic.

Also, not everyone on this site is pagan.

But, otherwise, Stonicus has a very valid point. I second his motion. (if my say means anything)

Thank you for the information, as none of what I read mentioned any of what you've stated.

Blessed Be,
Suliana

No worries. It's more from a study of history and theology than a study of magick. A lot of concepts, like drawing a circle, or the construction of the altar, and similar such things can be tracked back to Occultists who delved within Cabalic (qabalah/kabbalah/hebrew ) magick.

Though, truthfully, the most ancient of Hebrew magic was likely as equally influenced by the magick of Egyptian, Persian, and Babylonia sorcerers as well as the magick and religion of the Greeks.The jewish faith stays very pristine, for the most part. But if you are around other influences they will slowly influence at least some of what you do. And like any faith, there are different varieties and sects ranging from fringe group to the orthodox.

There seem to be many young people on this site who claim to be Christian Witches. That is a contradiction in terms! There is no heaven or hell in witchcraft, we do not even have a word for satan or the devil. If you have a Christian faith, all well and good, stick with it. But it has nothing to do with witchcraft.

Brysing, you are actually a bit wrong when saying Christianity and witchcraft have nothing to do with each other. If it wasn't for Christianity holding and slightly modifying the old ways, things such as Wicca wouldn't exist. There are Trinitarian Wiccans, which is a form of Christian Wicca. It works very well, instead of a multiple Gods they follow the Abrahamic God, and instead of the Goddess some use Marry, or "Mother Nature" as a lesser but still equivalent being. They acknowledge the holy trinity instead of the triple goddess. They really are more ceremonial than anything from what I've seen so far in my readings. Ceremonial magic uses a lot of "Christian" based magical rites, such as calling on the arch-angels, using the seals of solomon etc..

To Awaketoolong, If your one post was directed at me in some way I'm under no delusion at the age of Wicca, or any form of paganism. I was speaking in generalized terms for paganism and not modern day Wicca.

I just wanted to clear up a few things, my post here is not meant to offend anyone.

Nah, I was just rambling in general about the age of Wicca. I'm sure you've run into misconceptions in the past too and I figured it was a good opportunity to attempt to educate.

Blackslash, In regards to the original question, according to commonly accepted Christian beliefs if you practice witchcraft then you are damned unless you repent. This doesn't have to be your belief, that's just the most common view.

Brysing, when you say 'we do not even have a word for the devil', I don't know who you're refering to by this 'we' but it certainly isn't me. I was taught the craft( called Traditional Witchcraft nowadays) by my grandmother, and I can assure you that repect is paid to the Auld Hornie, or the Devil. And as for the part about witchcraft and Christianity having nothing to do with each other, well that's exactly the point. Witchcraft is a practice, not a religion like Christianity and therefore the two are not mutually exclusive. If someone wishes to practice witchcraft and be a Christian then that is up to them.

This thread has been moved to Comments from Welcome.

Taking in Stonicus's comment, Blacklash no one can really tell one what is what to you. To me your asking me to tell you if blue is blue. Some people say its gree, others red, and etc, but what really matters is what you see. If you believe that your going to burn in hell for being a pagan I will give you my minds' opinion: If that what you think then by all means do what you think is best to prevent that. My hearts' opinion is an opinion that may sound like preaching so I wont indulge it.

I hope you find your own path and answers to this.

It seems there is much misunderstanding regarding Paganism. The early Christian (Catholic) Church deemed any religion other than Christianity was "Pagan". There are many so-called Pagan religions.But what we mean on this site as Pagan is the love of the natural order of things; the old Gods and Goddesses. Witchcraft, of course, is pagan; but Pagan is not necessarily witchcraft.Witches, and Pagans, certainly believe in the teachings of Jesus, and certainly believe that the Ten Commandments are good pointers in living a good life. But Pagans do not believe that Jesus was a God, or divine. If you believe that Jesus was "God made man", then you are a Christian. If you do not believe this, then you are a Pagan. You cannot be both! There are Christians who work with magic,yes. But they are not,strictly speaking, witches; nor are they Pagan.