More Fluff and stuff

OK I just got my first rank. I don't know whether it was better to have no rank or be ranked as a beginner lol I guess 35 years is a beginner. However it doesn't matter hon what matters is that you know who you are. Just keep up the work and let the others know that you are above your rank. That what truly matters. Hold your head up high. Don't let it get to you.

Love and Light,
Annamare

i think it should be ok to be a mermaid or vampire or even a unicorn you still want to learn magic and all about the spiritual side of things.

I agree that the ranking system is flawed. Personally I have given up on ever being ranked higher than what I am. I will continue to provide information to those that are ready to accept it. If people want to look at a ranking rather than the knowledge I and other knowledgable people present that is their loss.

I let the people that I feel have good knowledge know I appreciate their work. I see little else we can do to change the situation. I was lowered in status once for presenting information, with published references. I was told I was spreading fluff. Ah well. What can we do?

LVX,

Shawn.

Normally, I wouldn't even comment on this again, but I feel the need to clarify things as I am one of the people ranked as knowledgeable, and as one of the people who don't fit into the stereotypes that people who feel "under-ranked" or are under-ranked. It really bothers me when I am stereotyped against, especially by people who feel like they are the ones being stereotyped.

Insight:

I disagree as to the lesser known practices comment. I am one of the few people identifying as Kemetic, and probably the most knowledgeable person identifying as such. Lark is actually my closest peer, and others like Pixa, Grg, Artie, and Aura tickle me pink with questions and discussions.

It took me 3 months to hit knowledgeable with my threads and chats. Before that, I didn't post in public or even talk that much, because I didn't want to get involved in all the silliness in public (this thread included) and was ranked as a novice under my account for almost a year. Yes, there are people who should be knowledgeable who aren't. I'm not denying the system can be unfair, because it can. It is based on the rankings of those who are knowledgeable and adept. It is based on their perceptions of you.

Yes, they aren't perfect. Our rankings don't always reflect our knowledge, but sometimes they reflect things like maturity.

Anyone can claim to be the ever wise man or woman of the world, they can claim to be a practitioner of 10+ years. We can't prove that except by listening to a person and reading their posts. And honestly, I am more apt to rank people who claim to be of several years as a beginner, than to rank them higher based on their claim alone.

Annamare:

You may have been gone a while, but I haven't really noticed you in the chatter; which is where most rankings occur. You were unranked until you hit a ranking more likely than not. Not all those without a visible ranking are ranked as fluff, and actually many more are unranked than ranked as fluff.

Your supposed claim to 35 years of knowledge can't be proved until you show up as such. After viewing some of your threads, I would say you have some knowledge, but not necessarily a full claim to 35 years of it. This assessment is based on the short, but informational posts you have made. Perhaps if you made a thread of your own, rather than just commenting and answering the threads of others, you would stand out as a more knowledgeable practitioner.

No, that isn't intended as a put-down. Rather, I'm trying to get you to understand how I rank people. I can't say that these same guidelines apply to all who can rank, because I don't discuss rankings with anyone else. And honestly, I don't read forums often as I have a busy life, and usually am off reading something else while logged in.

DarkM00n:

The rankings are based on contributions to the website, through various things such as chatting, posting, mailing, and anything else you do on this website. Those with the knowledgeable or adept rankings can rank you: Fluff, Unranked, Beginner, Novice, or Knowledgeable. We determine how you are ranked, and we can change the ranking at any time we decide to.

Pet has made a post that explains the basic ideas of the ranking system. This is the link:

http://www.spellsofmagic.com/read_post.html?post=329556

And sometimes, appearing more knowledgeable and being more knowledgeable are different. Sometimes, even I question if I deserve a knowledgeable ranking, because I consider myself incomplete in my path, but I understand I always will be. Simply showing a bit of knowledge is far different from showing in depth knowledge of a topic. Much like writing a sentence versus writing an essay on the same topic. Both can be equally right, but the essay will contain more information, citations, and thoughts.

Yes, sometimes the system becomes a popularity contest, but I for one don't treat it like that, and I know of at least a few who don't treat it that way either (Percy, Lark, etc).

I agree that kids doing magic at young ages is silly, but when I first got involved in magic, I was 10 or 11, before I hit puberty. I distinctly remember being flat-chested when I first went, "Hey, what if I...". I don't think anyone under 8 or 9 could really claim to be doing magic, but hey, I could be wrong. In traditional Kemetic divination practices, sometimes a young boy (around 7) is used in the magical process, and if he's passed puberty, he is no longer useful in the divination. Yeah, a kid is helping out a knowledgeable hekau (magician), and the kid plays a very important role in the practice. If you would like more information on it, feel free to hit me up for it or for citations.

Felixmoon:

This website discourages irrational thinking that involves physically becoming something you are not: vampire, werewolf, fairy, growing wings, becoming invisible, etc. I like that discouragement in that it encourages people to grow up out of dreamland. I think that play has a good place in life, but such things have a certain place and time to be done. I like play quite well myself, but I'm not going to run around thinking I can fly because I said some magic words and drank some nasty stuff.

I think the people who are insulted by such things have the rights to be so. Wouldn't you be insulted if someone came into your house, and told you everything you ever thought was wrong? Insulted you and your way of life? That is what fluff does when they come here.

I do not, however, think that everyone reacts to fluff in a helpful manner. I would rather try to help out the problem than to worsen it by being nasty or forceful. Even if it means I repeat myself a lot, I'd rather try to help people out.

I try to make myself a servant to everyone, but that doesn't mean I am without my own pride and decency. :)

To Everyone Else:

Please, before you go about, throwing a fit over your rank, look at your history on the site. If it isn't showing itself as worthy of ranking, as worthy of being a knowledgeable, novice, or even beginner, please, don't comment here. Bane made this thread to explain her sadness, not to have people rant about how the ranking system is unfair.

Bane herself didn't even blame those of us who can rank for her predicament, yet many you are putting forth your own agendas. It isn't helping anyone, and it won't get you a ranking, or even a right one.

To me it seems like Kebs has covered everything related to this thread and even other questions and problems members brought up through this thread's existence. Very well done. I read your post and you've brought up valid points and I agree with most of them, it's very distinguished that you were being truthful and upstanding.

Anyway, since I am individually a member of this site as well, I happen to have some opinions about the ranking system and this very specific thread as well as everyone thinks differently about most aspects known to humanity. Even though everything has been fully covered, I feel like there were some things that I needed to brighten up or at least recover in order to present my humble opinion about everything that is going on. I would like to present my own idea and what I have to say or offer about it, for this reason.

So to be very clear with this, I honestly didn't know where to begin with my post for this thread since there are so many subjects to cover (questions, problems, points and statements) and also, many subjects that very already covered successfully previously. So, I guess I will just say everything I have in my mind and take everything out without planning any specific order. If you have any question about any content you may find here, please feel free to ask me and I'll do my best to answer and help.

Now then, the first thing I would like to bring up a bit more is members not having the ranking they deserve according to their actual knowledge(being over ranked or being low ranked unfairly):

Well, we all know that the ranking system isn't the most perfect thing on earth, as a beginning to what I have to say about this subject specifically. However, to some degree many members who deserve to be ranked knowledgeable (this is just an instance, this could be any other ranking one may deserve) will eventually get there after being noticed by other knowledgeable or Adept ranked members.

To me it feels like, that the main problem of the system, is that the knowledge ratings are based on the opinions of knowledgeable or Adept ranked members who might need plenty of time to come to the conclusion someone who is really worthy has to be ranked up, let's not talk about how much time it will take to bump them up with their fair (at least sometimes) votes.
Sometimes, or to be as accurate as I can - usually, opinions about other people's knowledge can be irrevocably judgmental, biased, and unthoughtful. That is a very true thing. This means, very simply, that someone might get a rank according to bias by a small click of a buttons.

However, everyone should keep in mind that the knowledgeable and Adept ranked members do their best to rank fairly, without any bias or judgmental opinions related to the members they're attempting to grant a specific ranking.

However again, there are (without exaggerating) plenty of worthy members who are ranked lower, because their knowledge judgement is up to other members who might not always do a perfect job finding out who deserves what and noticing members with deep knowledge since we can't always know who knows what, and beyond that not everyone shines / brightens up the world with knowledge any time in order to impress other members, which means wrong judgment can be passed towards them. What I'm saying is that we can't always know how knowledgeable or fluffy someone may be, and it can take months to decide what someone's proper and truthful ranking can be which slows down the system.
Someone who was in chat or in the forums and said something, may have sounded like a novice or like a beginner for only once instance, indeed - that is unfortunate, but that doesn't mean they are beginners (or novices) so that gives no reason to shoot a rank for them, they might be above all incredibly knowledgeable -- when you get to know them, to talk to them and see what they're worth and how much things they know about the occult.

The bright side of this all, is that we can hope that the knowledgeable and Adept ranked members do a good job with passing judgment and granting people ranking, however again, it isn't perfect at all and if you want my honest opinion about the ranking system, it cannot be perfect although we can always try. Anyway instead of complaining, I think we should look at the bright sides of things and if we dislike something we should take actions in order to fix it instead of whining and complaining! That is mu humble opinion.

I'd rather be positive than negative about this all. I'd rather try to do something to help instead of complaining about how abominable everything is. I think that such attitude helps go through all of this quite easily.
So please take it positively and care only for your practices and actual knowledge - and not for what a colorful tag that means nothing says in your profile!
These colorful tags aren't worth our honest, loyalty and actual knowledge or wisdom at all however it seems like it upsets the majority of the site, unfortunately. I think it should be important for us only in order to point out who the real fluffs are, otherwise all we have to do is to take care of our stuff and actual practices as a colorful tag, won't change your life or determine who you really are. This colorful tag, is just a tag, and it isn't that awesome or lightening if you ask me, all you can do is to stare at it with happiness.

To Bane, I know you're amazingly knowledgeable and also a very worthy and good person. If you read what I said above, you will see my opinion about the rankings which as I stated are merely colorful tags that show up on profiles and mean nothing about who you are and what you're worth, because we all know how valuable you are! Just tags, remember this!
Anyway Bane, I am horribly sorry for what happened to you and I really hope that eventually it will work out for you, and it will get fixed which means you'll get what you deserve.

So now, the rankings can be changed. Indeed, nothing is final. If someone is ranked novice and they are knowledgeable in fact, it doesn't mean that they were doomed to stay novices. It is just a matter of time until a knowledgeable or Adept ranked member notices them and bumps them up to knowledgeable. It is just a matter of time as the system doesn't always work magnificently rapidly. Everything will come on its time, as I always say and try to explain to people.
Even kebs, who is currently ranked knowledgeable, said that she had novice ranked accounts for over a year, and that it took her 3 months to hit knowledgeable. A year sounds like a huge amount of time, but as you can see eventually people get what they deserve if they show enough maturity and knowledge throughout their membership on this site.

The same thing is relevant to over ranked people. Nothing is final. A knowledgeable ranked member who actually isn't knowledgeable, can be bumped down any time if everyone notices they don't know as much as their rank states they know. It is just a matter of time as I said already, and eventually everything is put on its place.

My personal opinion is the ranking system is not perfect at all however it helps us notice who members who don't care about magic are, the members who care only for fictional grandma stories and do nothing but talk about stories with fictional backgrounds. If you haven't guessed already who I was talking about, the word to define such people is fluffs. Yes, the system does help to reduce the activity of fluffs and discourage them to do whatever they do to insult members who actually know what they're talking about.

That actually helps, if you ask me and care about what I have to say about this matter. Fluffy members could be here and misguide people, however now the ranking system points out who they are.
However, as always, there is a problem as the system is not perfect. The fluffy ranks are not visible for now. Which means only knowledgeable and Adept members can view the fluffy ranks. That means that other members may not be aware of such things and eventually get misguided. However, knowledgeable members do have the right to point out in public who is ranked what in order to help everyone else realize who may be a troll or a fluffy member.

That discourages trolls and insulting members, which is very good, because they can truly cause troubles and insult bright members. That, besides administrative actions taken against them, is what we can do to help it.

As for members who complain for having no ranks. You should be aware that whining about it here won't help in getting ranked up and it might cause the opposite thing to happen. Just be active, show how much you know and eventually you will get to it.

That is for now all I could say about it but I might add more for later. I hope what I said will be taken seriously as it is what I really feel about the whole problem. I hope it helps clear up some things that needed to be covered, as I truly think something had to be said about those problematic - controversial subjects.

~Eaura.

I agree, with a lot of these comments.

With the ranking system I know personally it is flawed and although 99% of knowledgeables deserve it and do NOT abuse it, there are some people who abuse their label by ranking others fluff.

As a practitioner I personally do not tell people all my business, and everything else. I keep my studies low and it helps me learn.

I personally know the people who are knowledgeable and those who are really fluff so I don't look at the profiles.

Anyway all in all,
The system is flawed.

Kebs,

Very well Put and It is true you have no knowledge of my history as I have none of yours. This is all well and good and I don't need a ranking to show what an who I am.

I have tried on countless times to enter the chat,to no avail. I wrote to a moderator for advice on what the problem could be. They referred me to Pet because they didn't know. I wrote to him twice with no reply. I posted a forum asking for help yet none came. How odd scents I turn away none that ask me for help. Rank me anyway you see fit. But I cant get into the chat.

Whether you or anyone else on the sight is knowledgeable I don't know. Like I said I have been gone for a number of years. I was here back when there was only 4 covens. I was one of the very first moderators on this site.
So other than LindaCash and Spiritwolf whom I have known for years, and have the most respect for in the word. In my opinion they should rank some of the highest here. I love to read Larks Post and make it a point to read every one of them.In my Opinion she is extremely Adapt. I also have the uppermost respect for Personified. I may or may not have read any of your post. If I did they just didn't jump out at me. So whether or not you are knowledgeable I can only go by what others have ranked you as.

I'm not putting anyone down or even saying that anyone is wrong or right. But scents you felt it necessary for me to be one of the ones that you singled out just because "you don't know" how long I have practiced. Which from what Ive seen here as of late, I could have said 15 years and still be years ahead of most. So I have no reason to lie.
And yes Maturity has a lot to do with it. As in those that are ranked knowledgeable shouldn't Scream I'm the most knowledgeable here. For none of us are. I may know things that someone else doesn't and they may know things I don't.

I like what you have posted on your profile and I'm going to borrow it here if you don't mind.

Do not be arrogant because of your knowledge, but confer with the ignorant man as with the learned, for the limit of skill has not been attained, and there is no craftsman who has fully acquired his mastery. Good speech is more hidden than malachite, yet it is found in the possession of women slaves at the millstones."

~From the "Maxims of Ptahhotpe"

"There is nothing noble about being superior to some other person. The true nobility is in being superior to your previous self."

~Ernest Hemmingway


That being said, I know what I know. No ranking or not ranking can change that. But I do feel that just because some one clams to be knowledgeable and is ranked as such doesn't necessarily make it so. Just like Under Ranking someone or not ranking them at all makes it so.

I also meant to add that you said this,

"I agree that kids doing magic at young ages is silly, but when I first got involved in magic, I was 10 or 11, before I hit puberty."
However, Its not possible that I too started as a pre-teen? And now with me really pushing 50. Hmmmmm. Oh well. I'm not meaning to come off short. It just really don't like people making faults assumptions.

Love, Light And with Respect
Annamare

The ranking system is flawed, but everything can have bugs. In my view, we might hate it but yet we still talk about it. Maybe there is a spark in us knowing that it can change. A lot of programs still develop bugs though. I remember when the ranking system was new you were ranked knowledgeable, Bane. So why now is all the bad stuff happening right now? Doesn't really make any sence. Why do we even judge someone claiming that they did this on purpose without walking in their shoes? We never know what is the true case. I'm don't hate nor do I like the ranking system because I don't know how it was made or what bugs it may have. We can fight over this, but can we think of reasons and support them first? If it needs to go then it could, but anything can be improved. Look at how much technology has changed. I remember hearing in chat how the site didn't have as many fluffies. Perhaps the ranking system misranks people because of the number of increasing fluffs. After talking to Lady_Zeb on this she did give some good point like a pagan website should not involve conflict, but bring unity. However, there will always be conflict before we have unity because we must learn to understand. Plus we always consume someone as a fluff, but do we sk ourselves why they act this way? We all think of Hollywood, but could it be a type of connection. For examples: But what if it's the connection to certain paths as well. Werewolve could mean their spirit animal is a wolf or a type of dog. Mermaid could mean spirit animal is a type of fish and they feel closer to the water element. Fairies could mean they feel close to the Celtic path and/or should try and work on a path withs a fae. etc. This means that they have connection with different things, but miss led them to the wrong conclusions due to Hollywood. What if it's the mixture of the intent in the spell, that won't work, and the excitment that creates a spark to led them to thinking that way. I don't support fluffs because they use sterotypes, but I'm willing to help them because anyone can learn. I may not suport them, but I would like to help them with reasonings I give for why they may act that way. We are a community, and that children, who will be children, are part of that community. We are a community, like any other, that needs to find a reason to heal. I don't blame Pet or anyone else for this because I know this can happen to anyone. I've heard people blame him for this, but ,for the people who complain, ask yourself how would you feel if you were an admin of a site with the same issue, but didn't do it? How would you feel if people kept blaming you. Saying you can do something when no human is perfect and when anything can have a bug. No one stops caring because we complain, but we still care. If we did not care then we should of shut up about it. We must admit there is a spark in us that wants to care, but we can't let it out.

We must try to give reasons before we complain, but we always must understand each other before a set of unity can be drawn too. I would like to help, but it's not within my position. We must work together and try to improve what is broken.

Nice to see a balanced view, Grg. I think the ranking system was an interesting idea, and experiment, if you will. Unforunatey, it brought unhappiness, superiority complexes, and conflict. Conflict divides, and, as Grg cited above, as pagans/heathens/whatever path, we don't need a system where we are further segregated. I'm optimistic that this will heal. :)

I think Lady_Zeb said everything in her comment brilliantly.

As she said, instead of making us endorsed, facilitating us and letting us meet each other, this experiment only caused fights, plenty of stress, wretchedness and it also made many of us give up on that community and I'm not very surprised over it.

I think that the ranking system was a good experiment to let us get to know our human nature if you try to look at it with a psychological manner. It showed how we really act when it comes to authorities, corruptions, and gaining positions. Yes, it taught us about our psychological position.

However, we aren't experimental animals at the end of the day. We are a community. We aren't here to be a part of a psychological experiment.
Above all, this ranking system widespread misery, and we aren't quite happy to take part of it. It didn't go as it should have went.

It was a thoughtful period but a tough one, however I think everything must have an ending, including this little experience. We saw, tried and then complained. :D

I wholeheartedly feel like we would all develop better as a website and a magic community if we didn't have this superiority system. Peace is important no matter what.