Mental or astral are different from physical. When people say you cannot shapeshift, it's physically. There are psi vampires, otherkin, and those historical "werewolves" and "vampires" that were actually undiagnosed medical conditions, but these are not "say this chant under a full moon and physically transform into this mythological being". Magick is a natural energy that brings natural change, and while beliefs differ from culture to culture, physical shape shifting isn't possible with magick because it contradicts nature. I will go out on a limb for those who believe it's possible [since some shaman claim they can after years of practice and wisdom is passed on from an elder] and say there's is a .001% chance it could happen, but if it is possible, there is absolutely no way that knowledge would be posted on this website by a 13 year old who just stumbled into the secret after trying a couple times. It might be surprising [or possibly upsetting] but there are oath bound secrets depending on paths and it is almost guaranteed no one who isn't ready, or known, would be granted this wisdom. This is why those of us who have studied and practiced for a long time and know what is possible and what isn't can use the giant rubber "fake spell" stamp on 85% of the spells posted to this site. It isn't to upset people, it's to save their time and energy, as well as to try and teach so they can learn about real magick.
I hear ya. It just kinda feels like saying "you can't keep a wolf as a pet" as opposed to saying "you can't keep a wolf as a pet, but you might want to look into adopting a husky or malamute because they are very similar to wolves".
very true, and when i'm on the forums, i do my best to give other options to those questions if there is any, however, when it comes to the comment sections on the spells/articles it's set up like twitter, and a shorter answer is the preferred format, which makes those trying to help come off rather short and dismissive. [when in reality we're just giving a quick "yes or no" answer]
Indeed, all the real shape-shifting potions I have seen would contain plants that have opium-like effects and that would induce someone a certain high-like state in which they would visualize themselves as what they have shape-shifted into. And it would last a certain amount of time and then you would turn back to normal. You could call it an inner "Polyjuice Potion" :)) But again, it is a spiritual transformation rather than a physical one. And they are also highly discouraged, as in case you mess up the ingredients, you could overdose on some pretty nasty things.
Re: Transformation By: NikiKamof1
Post # 9 Apr 26, 2019
this goes perfectly with a thread I was planning to post.
And to us, magic is a form of quantum manipulation using energy to induce a desired change.
A good rule of thumb is that to do anything with magic requires the same level of energy output as to do it physically--or even more so due to entropy and the laws of thermodynamics.
the reason you cannot transform is you need the same energy in proportionto the mass of the new body you are attempting to construct with magic.
i am going to use human pregnancy as an example.
that is constructing a new body in a sense.
it is a stressful nine month processfor the one in question just to produce 7 Lb. new born infant.
And once you upscale this to the weight of an adult human as your benchmark, you can see it is so beyond difficult for you to construct a new body with magic, that calling it impossible is quite appropriate.
And even if it was possible, the stress placed on you would be so extreme, your body would never be able to withstand it for long at all--if ever.
Re: Transformation By: Artindark Moderator / Adept
Post # 10 Apr 28, 2019
Why a physical body cannot shape-shift or transform into another absolutely different or similar self-organised biological system?
When it comes to physical transformation of cells, tissues, organs and body parts, the main issue is not lack of believe. It is not even the energy expenditure, as Niki mentioned above. It is a matter of the chemistry and biology applied in every self-organised, complex organism, including Homo Sapiens (human). All living things are regarded in physics as self-organised biological systems. However, each biological system can vary in terms of complexity of structures, which facilitate its survival and reproduction. For example, a single cell organism is less complex in comparison with organism that is made of systems composed by multiple different cells. So it happens, Homo Sapiens is the most complex organism, identified by the scientist in the known universe so far. Humans do not have the highest mass or the longest DNA genome, but the way its systems have became specialized and functioning, especially our brains, is exceptional. Simple organisms like viruses and bacteria are prone to mutations occurring accidentally, and they often do not kill the organism. However, the more complex organisms are not prone to mutations, due to various reason. First of all, multiple safeguarding processes are put in place to prevent random mutations happening in random cells. The DNA and RNA multiplication are checked and corrected immediately by specialized proteins, during cell division and renewal. Secondly, already existing cell is programmed to undergo process of apoptosis and to destroy itself, as soon as it detects internal mutation occurring. This process is mainly hindered in cancerous cells, due to the nature of the type of genetic mutation they express. If a cancer cell survives this process, goes rogue and keeps multiplying the outcome for the entire complex organism can be lethal, if occurring in crucial organs and tissues. Therefore, complex organisms will do anything possible to prevent any specialized cell reproducing/mutating into something different than what it was genetically designed for.
I have mentioned above the term specialized cells. Let me elaborate that further. All cells of all tissues in human body are derived from embryonic stem cells created within the blastocyst. These embryonic stem cells are called omnipotent because they have the ability to become any single type of cell composing any type of tissue/organ, but this happens in very narrow window of time during the development of the embryo. They are called omnipotent because each contains the entire DNA genome and each of its genes are capable to activate/express itself. Once the embryonic stem cell decides to differentiate or specialize in specific cell of specific tissue, the genes coding for production of any other protein produced by other types of cells are turned off via methylation. The gene is capped and this cap does not allow the DNA transcribing machinery to dock and to copy/reproduce it. This process actively switches off the gene, and it becomes inactive and it cannot express itself any longer. All genes that code for anything else that is not specific to this type of cell (including protein production) not characteristic of this type of cell are turned off. This process cannot be reversed in humans and in most complex organisms. Additionally, very few simple organisms can reverse the process once in certain phase of their lifetime. In summary, once a stem cell of an embryo has specialized, it cannot be anything else but the type of cell it chose to become. Adult stem cells are multipotent, but they can only become cells that are belonging to their closely related cell family and producing similar proteins. For example, the cells making your skin and hair are from the same family of specialized cells and they produce the protein keratin. These cells have similar structure and shape as well. Stem cell of an adult will never change/transform from blood cell to neuron for or from muscle cell to one of the cells of your kidney. If your cells cannot transform into something entirely different, so do your organs and tissues. Your skin will not become fur any soon.
Someone can argue, that since our closest relative genetically is chimpanzee, we can become one by activating 99 percent of our common ancestor DNA. First of all,we will have to remove these extra 1 percent genes we do not share with chimps, but it is not that we know exactly witch ones. Second, many of the genes we share and have inherited from common ancestor which make chimpanzee one, will be switched off much before we were born. Then to reverse back to human, we have to somehow add these unknown 1 percent of genes and switch off the ones that make chimp a chimp. This is selective process and even if it was possible, we do not know our genome that well and the room for error is mind boggling. No, this cannot be done in scientific laboratory by scientists either.
The take home note of all mentioned above is that due to complex biological and chemical mechanisms existing in you from the time of your conception to time of your death, your cells, tissues, body parts and systems will never become something entirely different, does not matter how much you wish for it. It does not have to do with will power or magic, it has to do with your biochemistry and anatomy, which are dictated by your genetic make up.
The energy expenditure problem.
If we assume that there is not biological and chemical related restriction to this process, there is still the energy expenditure problem. Humans are mostly operating energetically via usage of ATP and in the case of neuronal cell a particular type of electromagnetic energy. Your body reproduces and recreates all of the cells in your body, except the cells of the nervous system. Very few neurons can
be produced in adult age. Cell division requires a lot of energy, so cells are not renewed all at once and fast. This is because our digestive system is not particularly fast to break down the food in order to supply the energy needed. This is long and slow process. Physically, it cannot happen instantly or overnight and certainly not in all systems at the time. Additionally, the ATP production requires water and in the process oxygen and C02 are involved. Thus, one will need a lot of water too, and the removal of C02 via lungs is must. In short, all systems have to work faster than usual rate and more food, water and oxygen will be needed. Now, oxygen is explosive element and so does hydrogen, and they are especially explosive in specific combinations. Their chemical structure and properties facilitate the release of so called free radicals. The ATP production often creates uncharged molecules with unpaired valency electrons (free radicals). This unpaired electron will actively seek another one to pair itself with, according to laws of physics. So this unstable molecule would crash into another molecules and damage the DNA of your cells. This can cause additional mutations. Especially, if ATP is produced at a faster rate than usual. Thus, the body will need additional supply of antioxidants (Vitamin C and E) to neutralize the free radical damage by donating these additional electron. Humans cannot produce neither of the two by themselves. Additionally, exactly this process of energy production and free radical damage is one of the processes that ages us faster. Thus, there is a price for faster ATP production, due to higher than usual demand, which is faster aging and significant damage to the DNA of cells, and also possible mutation issue at a later stage. Even if we can counteract that and somehow increase the energy production process and the rate of work of all systems of the body higher expenditure will require higher energy supply, but higher energy demand is also more energy consuming to sustain on long run plus accounting for damage and higher rates of atrophy and entropy. If we somehow manage to counter the the physical, chemical and energy expenditure issues, there is still very serious genetic issue. Each of your chromosomes has a specific endings called telomeres. Chromosomes contain your DNA. This comes into the section of why you cannot be immortal.
Why a complex biological system cannot be immortal even in environment with endless supply of needed resources?
Each cell creation, division requires its DNA to be read, copied and multiplied. Telomeres usually protect your chromosomes from fusing ith other near by chromosomes or disintegrating. Every time your DNA is copied, the telemeres of this chromosome become shorter and shorter. Eventually, they get too short and the DNA cannot be copied any longer. Therefore, your cells cannot be recreated neither transformed. There is direct link between shortened telomeres and high incidence of cancer, higher incidence of death, due to impossible cell division. Of course, faster reproduction means faster telomeres shortening leading to cancers and shortened life span. Therefore, you cannot be immortal simply because your cells have to be renewed multiple times in your life and this shortens the telomeres.
Why is not practical to be immortal?
Most neurons cannot reproduce and the adult body has very limited ability to create very few new neurons in only certain regions in the brain. Eventually, all your neurones will be so old and in so bad shape you will not even know who you are and what is happening. This is not the type of living/existence I am looking for, when I say living. Remember, your personality is a construct of your brain, so does your identity, desires, memory, reality, feelings, emotions, experience on a physical level. When your brain gradually looses the ability to construct any of these technically you exist but you do not exist realizing yourself. You exist to other people as a pile of flesh that is not even self-aware and requires 24 hours care and attention.
@ Frenchfrye mental and astral transformation is different [as is when people go through a spiritual "transformation" or decide to go on a diet and exercise to loose weight, and when people have surgery to change something about themselves] these aren't physical changes you just willed into happening. mental shifting happens in your mind, and doesn't effect natural laws, as well as astral transformations which takes place on another plane of existence that doesn't adhere to the law of nature like the physical plane does. on the physical magick is ruled by nature, and since humans can't wake up and go "i want to be a cat" and turn into a cat, a spell won't either because it contradicts nature.
@ darkfox2 because some people think it's "cooler" to be a glow-in-the-dark vampire were-swan that's invisible and shoots lasers from its eyes [yes that sounds ridiculous, but over the years i've been asked for some pretty out there spells] they don't want to be human, they want to be "special" but in order to be "special" they need to do some soul searching, connect with their inner self, and discover who they are and what they want, but that's hard, and scary, and takes forever, so it's just easier to say this chant and become a vampire. that's basically the same, right?
