Law of physics

rocksnplants, That's just it. There's not really much difference at all between the laws of physics and those "laws" that govern magic.

The difference is that physics is generally an accepted science with quantifiable results. Magic is more art and mysticism than any real science, with very little offered by way of tangible proof. To me, is on one end of the spectrum in search of knowledge, while science is on the other.

The laws of physics do nothing more than describe the manner of the universe - as understood and documented and proven through scientific process and evaluation. Thus if that is how the universe works, then magic must also work within the same limitations that have been proven to be true.

That is not to say that the laws may not expand to encompass more. The concept of magic will likely, some day, be explained quite well by science. Weather, earthquakes, volcanoes, etc. were all once thought the doing of the gods and then demonstrated to be natural events by science, for example. Science eventually overtook and explained these "mystical" phenomena.

However, whether science expands to offer deeper understanding of spirituality or not, denying the facts of science simply because one wishes to believe that more is possible is nothing more than willful ignorance. Belief does not make a thing so. There are likely tribes that still attribute weather to the gods somewhere on this earth. Weather is still a natural occurrence resulting from atmospheric conditions, condensation, etc.

What an interesting discussion this is, and the relations between science and magic seem to be undeniable. It looks as if some kind of agreement regarding these to disciplines has been found.

Just one more point I would like to state, although it feels like a minority's opinion. I did not want to say that physical laws change as soon as somebody does not believe in them or accept them. But maybe one has the feeling - without concrete knowledge - that things are a little different than what most people incl. scientists believe they are. And often those kind of feelings helped discover new knowledge. I admit, this argument is not based on much evidence. Still I foresee that one day there will be stunning effects confirmed by what a few people call magick these days.

PS Actually almost everything discussed in here is based on pure beliefes, as not proofed scientifically and often personal experiences that cannot be reproduced and sometimes work and sometimes don't.

Steph, as you have no profile we do not know anything about you. You are writing about physics, but do you really understand physics; or have you just read a bit of Wikipedia? A University Physics course is a four year study.

34 years old, European from a German speaking country, have a Masters Degree in Business, married and kids, working as manager in an international company. Reading about physics (not only wikipedia) is just a hobby. Anyone in here with four years study and degree in magick?

Now we know something about you, and it makes a difference to your posts.Now we understand you are not a 13 year old posting theories.
Yes, I think most of us have only read about physics, and not understand everything about it; some only a little, some quite a lot! (I had to read Hawkin's A Short History of Time three or four times before I really understood it!).
Nobody has a degree in magic, because there is no such University study; mainly because witches never wrote anything down!. But, the laws of physics do apply to magic/witchcraft. Magic can be demonstrated. (I have done so, many times!) I have studied magic/witchcraft for over seventy years!
So I now I know more about you, I will read again your posts, with more interest.

I do believe that the mind believing is capable of making something so; and more so if and when the right conditions are present. Which brings me to the serious consideration of magic within the laws of physics. It seems to me that the simplest magic is when it is a combined effort with the two. Swimming up stream against a current is more difficult than swimming down stream. In many instances its possible but why would you if you can swim down stream and get to the same place in an easier way.

I am a believer of "everything is possible" so it also seems likely to me that magic makes all things possible.

Is this subject on influencing the logic of cause and effect more on ones perspective? Mind over matter?

I am still confused.

NOPE!!!

Not possible unless all of those beings are gods that fully manifested themselves in the physical realm(which in and on itself is impossible for so many reasons that it`s not even funny).

I mean sure you could try and suffer EPIC fail with it(as in nothing at all happening).

Agree with rocksnplants, however not with fenriel!
Maybe everything is possible! The only thing we no for sure is, that we do not no for sure! Our nowadays knowledge and wisdom sums up at almost nill and people in a thousand years will laugh about today's perception of the world and scientific theories. We have to admit: Before the big bang there was nothing but a very dense point of mass and look what has emerged out of it! Whooa! Stars, energies, life! A full huge and pulsating universe out of almost nothing; there is no better proof that everything is possible!

I do have a deep believe that the minds can and do shape what's happening. And frankly, all the theoretic magicians in here will have to admit, that deep feelings and intuition can have some truth despite contradictory scientific research, don't they?

Ok I`ll agree that big bang is a good example that with ENOUGH energy just about anything is possible but at the same time one must also consider one single limitation.

Human body, mind and soul combined lack enough power for anyone to even have a snowball of chance of pulling many of the things considering breaking the laws of physics unless user is willing to kill him/herself to provide energy.

And although emotions, beliefs and will can do a lot but they cannot do that due to one simple thing instincts.

Relief to see we are about finding agreement! :-) And yes I also agree with you. It wuld need an awful lot of (will-, emotional, etc.) power to influence on billion years old habits from our universe...