control vs. manipulation

This is simply semantics, but seems to be coming up a lot lately in topics.

You can NOT control an element or external energies, and folks seem to be trying to get around this by saying "manipulate" instead.

What we are actually controlling or manipulating is our own energies for our magickal purposes. The energies from other sources, such as elements, rides along the line we direct our personal energy on.

Think of your energy as a stream. External energies ride this like a fallen leaf to it's destination. You don't direct that leaf yourself.

If this is disagreeable to you, then that's fine.

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Exactly

Actually what i think your trying to say is we cannot take and use other energies directly think of this way all you can realey do is ajust the flow of the current by adding your own energy to its flow eventually you can start directing the object to where you want to go or to what you want it to do... kinda like having a small toy boat in the stream where there's moving water going in one directing but if you want it to travel the other side you must put or your own energy into it whether that be throwing rocks or pushing it with a stick in order to change its path...

Actually, I said exactly what I meant. You control or manipulate what is of yourself, not what is external.

why oh why do people insist on taking something as simple as Spirit_Horse's explanation of how energy control works and making it as difficult as possible to figure out.

jebus, murray, and giuseppe! >.<

.. well for me, it is just as marston says.

Agreed, people thing they can create things out of thin air such as fire, which they can not, can only work with it.

See, the thing is that even in altering the flow of energy, or attempting to, you cannot necessarily determine the exact course that it takes.

You may dam up a stream, but the water may still change course over time, or otherwise make holes in your dam, etc.

The control is a brief illusion, and nothing more.

True enough, AwakeTooLong, but in terms of directing energy, we can only control or manipulate our own, even if it's short term.

-sigh-

Nevermind..Stoney is right about wasting time.

Nah, Spirit. I'm in agreement. Was just trying to offer a different perspective on the same thing due to an apparent lack of understanding. But... so it goes.