I was wondering if someone more experienced may be able to explain a few things to me around Free Will. The more I study about magick the more I realize that there are sets of rules to be followed. One of those rules is Free Will. Yes, everyone does have free will over their own life and own actions, but how often does our own free will get changed on a day to day basis. How many times have you been watching t.v. and a commercial come on about something and you think hum... I would like to have that. Now say its a commercial for food and you seen a delicious hamburger and after the commercial you find yourself raiding the cabinets. Its just a example of how marketing changes peoples Free Will. this happens without any magic at all.
So, how much free will can be changed by outside influence? If people say you cant do spell A because of free will, I often wonder why. Is it because the spell doesnt directly change there will? Could a spell not influence someone to change their free will by opening up paths for that person that they never would have thought about? If a commercial could change someones mind about something they normal wouldnt want, why couldnt a spell?
It depends a lot on the tradition. Some religions say you cannot affect free will at all, some say you can, some say you can if you think it's necessary.
I, personally, will do spells that affect free will if I think it's necessary. For example, I did a spell on one of my friends who was suicidal to prevent him from killing himself.
Free will is Will! Your choice! There are many things that influence your will but it's still your choice to give in or abstain. Magick has rules only because your working with power that's not your own the laws of nature. Other then that there are no rules. But just cause there's no rules don't mean there arnt consequences to your actions wether good or bad.
As Sylviana said, spells that affect free will depend on the religion and/or path that you take. Some religions and paths things that controlling the free will of someone is completely unacceptable, horrible and even sick, other paths are more loose with their rules and accept if you control someone if its extremely important. Finally there are the religions and paths that even teach you how to control someone and do whatever you want with it.
Personally, I would do it only if one of my friends intent to hurt themselves or even try to suicide, like Sylviana did. Remember that Magick doesn't have a good or a bad side, the intentions of your spell drive the energy and make a change around you that can be good for you and bad for others or vice versa, even could be equal, but that was your desire, not "black" or "white" Magick.
Well see, the idea of free will much like the idea of karma is seen subjectively depending on whom you ask. I believe in both but I have met many people who will tell you otherwise.
Some of the things I have heard are as follows, "persuading and forcing are the same thing." So basically, the argument is that convincing someone to do something is no different than using force. I respectfully disagree on the grounds me asking for help or persuading someone to help me is still them choosing to do so. If they absolutely do not want to they are still able to make that choice. So therefore, it is not taking away free will. Taking away free will is you have no other choice. So I cannot see the two as the same thing.
I've also had people who will say, "love spells are bad because they force free will!" I actually disagree with this as well. I think it depends entirely on how it is done. If your targeting a specific person then yes I'd say it's bad. But trying to attract someone with specific traits in mind and let someone who meets your standards come to you I'd say is different. Attracting love opportunities I would not say is the same as forcing a specific person to love you.
Thank you all for your wonderful opinions. I welcome anyones opinion regarding this thread and would love to hear others and how they feel.
I would have to say I agree to some parts and some not so much heres why. I do believe everyone has karma and free will. I wont deny I have seen both with my own two eyes. Do I believe you can have bad karma if you "take or mess" with someones free will, Yes. However, I believe if the intentions are pure and from love of the heart for that person, then free will can be used for good not bad.
Example: say your in a relationship and your girlfriend is a vegan. You read all sorts of books and articles, watched shows and gathered all sorts of evidence that eating a steak or meat would prolong their life span. Now your girlfriend is completely against eating me and says," I refuse to eat meat, I hate meat and it would disgust me to eat it. I dont see how you could even want to eat meat its disgusting". You present all the information that you gathered and try to persuade her to eat a some meat even if she doesnt like it to at least try it. She wont know if she likes something without trying it first.
you are persuading her to do something that she doesnt want to do. She still has a choice. Even though their are good facts to show how good it is for her and her love for him is strong, she is persuaded to do something that she normally wouldnt do. Does that give bad karma? does that change her free will? I wouldnt think so. I would say a love spell directed at a specific someone doesnt change their free will. a love spell may be directed at that specific person but its still up to them whether to do anything about a relationship or not. Yeah it may be persuading them to take a second look at you, or talk to you when they normally wouldnt, but if the intentions was that the specific person would find happiness with you, then the spell persuading them shouldnt be wrong.
Also, if anyone has any experience with honey jar spells, could you please explain how it works with free will? I hear that its used to sweeten someone or something. Wouldnt this spell work regardless to free will if you are trying to sweeten someone to you or towards something?
You can be Gods gift to sales and try to sell peanuts to the pope but if he don't like peanuts then he's not gonna buy any. Also love isn't completely based on physical attraction. You can present yourself to be more noticeable but that certainly doesn't mean they will love you nor does it mean you will make them happy.
I personally don't believe in the concept of free will. I believe that the universe is set up in such a way that there is only the illusion of choice, while in reality one has no choice. I'm skeptical of the idea that sentience is so important that it creates universes (a la the common interpretation of the multiverse theory). There's a lot of variation in philosophy in the magickal community and that should be celebrated. Read up for yourself.
