Witch doctor vs shaman.

OthalasWind I do not want to argue with you, but add. Tradition is the foundation of magic, because they have evolved historically. I will not deny they can be interpreted in its own way. But I'm against the remake and fantasies.

Here's how to Mircea Eliade describes the concept of "shaman."

Since the beginning of the century ethnologists used to not too precise use of concepts such as a shaman, sorcerer, magician or sorcerer, to identify some individuals who have the magico-religious powers and found in every "primitive" society. Subsequently, this terminology is extended to study the religious history of the "civilized" nations, they say, for example, the Indian, Iranian, German, Chinese and even the Babylonian shamanism, meaning "primitive" elements of the respective religions. If the word shaman, each denoted by a mage, warlock, sorcerer, or mysticism, mentioned in the history of religions and religious ethnology, we eventually obtain an extremely complex and at the same time imprecise concept whose usefulness is highly questionable, since there is a magician and sorcerer terms to describe concepts as diverse as they are vague - such as magic or mystical primitive

That phrase is Mircea Eliade

"The shaman is, among other things, also a magician." If you read it in the sense, that is my phrase that "Shamanism is closely associated with magic, but the difference lies in the fact that magic is directed to artificial changes in the world at large, while the shaman is dependent on the forces of nature." Is equivalent to!

I hope you do not consider themselves superior to Mircea Eliade?


Awards Mircea Eliade

1980 - Lyons, University Jean Moulin Eliade nominated for the Nobel Prize that he was not given because of his political past.
1984 - He received an international award by Dante Alighieri in Italy.
1984 - Eliade was awarded the Legion of Honor for his book "The history of religious ideas."

Bibliography

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Asian alchemy - Moscow: Janus-K, 1998, ISBN 5-86218-347-7
Aspects of the myth / Trans. with Fr. V. Bolshakov. - Invest-PPP, 1995. - ISBN 5-87538-006-3.
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Library of the Maharaja. Itineraries / / Oriental Collection. Spring 2007 / Per. and ca. EL Polyakov. - S. 118-159.
Initiation / / Nation. - 1996. - 2.
The story of faith and religious ideas. Volume I. From Stone Age to the Eleusinian Mysteries - Criterion, 2002, ISBN 5-901337-02-6, ISBN 5-901337-09-3.
Dr. Publication: MA: Academic Project, 2009.
The story of faith and religious ideas. Volume II. From Gautama Buddha to the triumph of Christianity - Criterion, 2002, ISBN 5-901337-02-6, ISBN 5-901337-07-7.
Dr. Publication: MA: Academic Project, 2009.
The story of faith and religious ideas. Volume III. From Muhammad to the Reformation - Criterion, 2002, ISBN 5-901337-02-6, ISBN 5-901337-08-5.
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Yoga: Immortality and Freedom - K. Sofia, 2000, ISBN 5-220-00307-0.
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The king and the coronation of the / / elements. - 1996. - 8.
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Cosmos and History. - M., 1987.
Mephistopheles and the Androgyne / Trans. with Fr. E. Debye, OV Davtyan. - St. Petersburg.: Aletheia, 1998, ISBN 5-89329-073-9
The myth of eternal return / Trans. with Fr. E. Morozova, E. Murashkintsevoy. - St. Petersburg.: Aletheia, 1998. A series of myth, religion and culture.
Dr. Edition: Ladomir, 2000, ISBN 5-86218-315-9.
Myths, dreams, mystery - Kiev: Refl-book, Walker, 1996, ISBN 5-87983-027-6, ISBN 5-87983-038-1, ISBN 966-543-015-7.
Essays on comparative religion - Moscow Ladomir, 2000, ISBN 5-86218-347-7.
Occultism, witchcraft and the culture of fashion - Sofia, Helios, 2002, ISBN 966-7319-60-1, ISBN 5-344-00159-2.
Why do I believe in the victory legionary movement? / / Tsarsky oprichnik. - 2001. - 1 (19).
Religions of Australia / Trans. from English. LA Stepanyants. - St. Petersburg.: University Book, 1998, ISBN 5-7914-0031-4.
The sacred and the secular / Trans. with Fr., foreword. and comment. NK Garbovskogo - Moscow: MGU, 1994, ISBN 5-211-03160-1.
Sacred texts of the world. - M.: Crown Press, 1998, ISBN 5-232-01036-0.
Dictionary of Religions - St. Petersburg, Aletheia, 1997, ISBN 5-7380-0050-1, ISBN 5-7914-0014-4 (single-volume dictionary is not made Eliade and his pupil, Ion Petre Kuliano, after the death of a teacher based on 16-volume "Encyclopedia of Religions" Ed. Eliade, published in Russian as a collective work of the authors: M. Eliade, Kuliano I. Glossary of religions, rituals and beliefs).
Dr. edition: Moscow: University Book, Rudomino, 1997, ISBN 5-7380-0050-1, ISBN 5-7914-0014-4.
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Secret Societies. Initiation rites and initiations - Moscow-St Petersburg.: University Book, 1998.
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Shamanism - Kiev, Sofia, 1998, ISBN 966-7319-16-4.
Dr. edition: Moscow, 1999.

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Fortune teller on the pebbles. - ABC, 2000. - ISBN 5-267-00163-5.
Generals' uniforms. - K.: Nika-Center, 2000. - ISBN 966-521-086-6.
The girl Kristina / / Foreign Literature. - 1992. - 3.
The girl Christina. - Criterion, 2000. - ISBN 5-901337-01-8.
Dr. Riddle Honigbergera / / Concord. - 1994. - 3 (28).
Snakes. - Criterion, 2003. - ISBN 5-901337-12-3.
Maitreya. - St. Petersburg: ABC, 2000. (Also known as Night of Bengal). - ISBN 5-267-00229-1.
Under the shade of lilies. - M.: Enigma, 1996. - ISBN 5-7808-0011-1
Promises of the equinox. Memoirs. T. I (1907-1937). Harvest solstice. Memoirs. T. II (1937-1960). - M.: Criterion, 2008. - ISBN 978-5-901337-29-5.
At Roma / / Foreign Literature. - 1989. - 8.
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Work, not published in Russian

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The most important scriptures of the world (Essential sacred writings from around the world)
Zalmoxis disappearing god (Zalmoxis, The Vanishing God), 1972.
Myth and Reality (Myth and reality), 1963.
Myths, rituals and symbols (Myths, rites, symbols)
Images and symbols (Images and Symbols), 1952.
Patanjali and Yoga (Patanjali and yoga)
Quest: The history and importance of religion (The quest; history and meaning in religion), 1969.
The rituals and symbols of initiation (Rites and symbols of initiation), 1958.
The symbolism, sacred art and (Symbolism, the sacred, and the arts)
Guide to world religions (The Eliade guide to world religions)
Universal Myths: Heroes, gods, tricksters, and others (The universal myths: heroes, gods, tricksters, and others)
What is Religion: A Study of Christian Theology (What is religion?: An inquiry for Christian theology)
Patterns in comparative religion (Patterns in Comparative Religion), 1958.
Encyclopedia of Religion (The Encyclopedia of religion), Chief Editor, 1987.

Literary works

Autobiography (Autobiography)
No souvenirs (No souvenirs: journal, 1957-1969)
Return from Paradise (Întoarcerea din rai)
Horn and the crucible (The forge and the crucible)
Diary (Journal)
Forbidden Forest (The forbidden forest)
On the street Myntulyasa (Pe strada Mântuleasa)
Marriage in Heaven (Nunt în cer)
Tales of the sacred and the supernatural (Tales of the Sacred and the Supernatural): Do Gypsies, The Three Graces
The Old Man and the bureaucrats (The old man and the bureaucrats)
Journey to the East, the journey to the west (Journey east, journey west)
Fantastic Tales (Fantastic tales)
Hooligans (Huliganii)
Youth without youth and other stories (Youth without youth and other novellas)

Although I don't use the title Shaman, I've been referred to as one by many. I am what most consider a hedgewitch--shamanism and european witchcraft combined. I didn't aim to be a hedgewitch. I was brought up in the Cherokee ways but decided to begin studying witchcraft around the age of twelve.

Having grown up with a slavic step-father and getting to know his mother who came from Ukraine, I can say that the perspectives on beliefs, superstitions, concepts, etc can be drastically different than those in the UK and America. Translation is also difficult due to the fact that some words frankly don't translate at all to english properly. The Coptic alphabet really puts a wedge in translation that latin based languages like French, Italian, and Spanish don't have. I've seen a group of people argue about the meaning of one single word from Ukrainian to English! With that in mind, I'll continue my points.

The slavic cultures never let go of it's pagan roots, merely slapped onto it Christian reasoning. So although times have changed, the slavic countries really haven't in terms of culture, belief, etc, which I admire. The knowledge is still there, from so very long ago. So I do enjoy reading Marfa's posts, whether I agree or disagree, because I find them fascinating--words that have probably been repeated for hundreds of years, generation to generation.

But my apologese for digressing from the subject.

Shamanism is a general term used to define such a wide range of magickal practioners throughout the globe that, in my opinion, one definition cannot possibly accurately pinpoint them all. So although I do not agree with Marfa, and side with Othalas based on my own understanding of Native American shamanism, I cannot say she is wrong. Between the possible miscommunication due to the translation from Russian to English and the cultural differences, she may be correct about SOME shamans. If she explained it in Russian, I'm sure it would sound much more concise.

But Marfa, since you are aware of your limitations, perhaps next time, to avoid future conflict, you can avoid matter of fact statements. Even I will write "in my opinion" "from my understanding" or "what I was taught" etc. unless it's a universally understood concept that has no true possibility of being disputed.

And to answer your question Night. Many people see no difference in those two words. If I am not mistaken, shaman is a label used for anthropological academics while "witch doctor" is more of a layman's label used long ago who saw people healing through magick and put the two together witch doctor(healer). But whether you call them shaman or witch doctor, they were the priest, doctor, wiseman, and even counselor of the community.

Thank you: WhiteRav3n. I do not like conflict. We are here for that would be enriched by knowledge and experience. Share your knowledge. And note the words, I do not impose as truth. But stick to the strict traditions. For me, the authority of knowledge is the Mircea Eliade, and not OthalasWind. And I do not make such dramatic statements as OthalasWind. I support a person expresses an opinion, and not blame others. I'll be only too glad if you tell me about their traditions

The word shaman comes from the Tungus-Manchu languages, the verb is associated with self - "know." Shaman designated person who is a mediator and elect spirits, having the ability to see a different, special and travel a reality in it. Every nation has its own names for shamans, which may differ even among single people, depending on the functions of the shaman and the shaman category: Evenks - adobe, a shaman, the Nenets - tadebey, the Buryats - boo, the Kets - Senin, the Altai stone . From the Turkic word stone was the word rite, meaning shaman ritual action, which is conceptualized as a journey through the worlds of the universe. In Russia, the word appeared in the XVII century, in written communications Russian service people from Siberia. Then it got to Europe via the foreigners, who rode in the Russian Embassy of Peter I in China through Siberia. The word was widely known and formed the basis of spread in science, the term "shamanism."

No one here is arguing with you Marfa, we are just stating our opinion and beliefs, just as you are. Just because what some of us, myself included, don't entirely agree with you or your perspective doesn't mean we are attacking you. I said what I said hoping that you would learn from the experience just as I am learning about Slavic culture. Keep in mind the constructive criticism is nothing to be ashamed of, I personally receive it on a daily basis.

Dear OthalasWind, criticism can be constructive or may be abusive in your case. You can go back to the first page and read your comments. But you can not put your opinion above the opinion of Professor Mircea Eliade TrackInside Inc of Chicago. You can agree or not as it did Knowledgeable and WhiteRav3n. But it is foolish to blame, and my statements are based on scientific studies Mircea Eliade.
You can just give an example of their traditions, is not it?
I think we understand each other.
I suggest to complement the knowledge of each other, and not to stir up conflict as you did.