Witch doctor vs shaman.

Thanks.

Thank you for your question agitated OthalasWind . How much anguish and feelings in your words. You are a lawyer rather than a shaman. You are in such matters do not put himself above God. I am also ashamed of you!


Mircea Eliade - (1907-1986) Romanian writer and scholar of mythology historian of religions. Professor, University of Chicago since 1957. Author of more than 30, and any scientific, literary and philosophical works, translated into 18 languages around the world. Fluent in ten languages.
Gabriel Gruber (German Gabriel Gruber (1740-1805) was a highly qualified engineer, specialist in the field of mechanics and hydrodynamics, versed in architecture, mathematics and navigation. In 1769 he began teaching at the Graduate School of Engineering in Ljubljana. He built the Palace of the project Gruber (now the building of the Archives of Slovenia), Ljubljana, and Gruber created the channel. Gruber Palace was used as a laboratory for the study
mechanics and hydraulics.

THIS IS SOME OF THEIR INTERPRETATION SHAMANISM

Shamanism in the strict sense - is primarily a Siberian and Central Asian religious phenomenon. This word came to us through the Russian language from the Tungus shaman. In other languages of Central and North Asia, its corresponding terms are Yakut oyun, Mongolian god (in dialects - bo), and udagan (there are also Buryat and Yakut udagan as a designation of female shamans), Turco-Tatar stone (Altai stone, din kami Mongol etc.). There have been attempts to explain the Tungus word Pali itself, and to the possible etymology (it refers to the vast problems of the Indian influences on Siberian religions), we return to the last chapter of the book. Throughout the vast territory of Central and Northern Asia magico-religious life of society centers around the shaman. Of course, this does not mean that it is the only one who has access to the sacred, or that he assumed control over all religious activity. In many tribes, along with a shaman and a priest-zhertvoprinositel, not counting the fact that each head of household is also head of the house of worship. Nevertheless, the shaman is the central figure, as in this whole area, where the ecstatic experience is highly religious, shaman, and only the shaman is the undisputed master of ecstasy. Because the first and probably the least risky to the definition of this complex phenomenon is the formula: Shamanism - a technique of ecstasy.

Eliade notes that shamanism - is, first of all, the socio-religious phenomenon. Throughout Central and North Asia magico-religious life of society centers around the shaman. He performs primarily social function is, in modern parlance, social psychologist. This does not mean that it is the only one who has access to the sacred, or that he took over control of the entire religious and social activities. In many tribes, along with a shaman and a priest-zhertvoprinositel, not counting the fact that each head of household is the head of household cult.

Shaman - a mediator between humans and beings from other worlds, the keeper of customary law, myths and customs. He has the support of universal knowledge. [30] Mifokosmologiya Shamanism is based on the partitioning of the universe to the upper, middle and lower worlds, united by a common axis - the world tree. Shaman are available clairvoyance, bilocal (simultaneous presence of two worlds), and other manifestations of "paranormal", he is able at will to change the weight and volume of the body. The shaman acts as a mediator between culture and nature, between the world of humans and the animal world, the world of the living and the dead. Becoming a shaman is accompanied by the initiation (initiation), and his activities - sessions, ritual, during which the special role played by the rhythm, suggestion and auto-suggestion, the use of hallucinogenic drugs. The usual content of shamanistic visions - a journey into the upper and lower worlds, in a different reality. E.Gruber says the state is characteristic of shamanism "predpoznaniya", which imparts to it the character of a "psihoarheologii". [31] The elements of shamanism, and presenting his ideas, his technique, resulting in a hunting culture, entered the religious systems of early civilizations and world religions .
In the opinion of M.Eliade, shaman rites, in which event reaktualizuyutsya mythology, symbolizing the destruction of historical time and return to the sacred time of the mythical past. This characteristic, however, not only for shamanism, it is a property of many forms of ritual and religious activities, starting with the ceremonies on time dreaming of the aborigines of Australia.

PS Be Friends tolerance in their statements. And do not catch me on the word. I just started to learn English.
It is a pity that you do not speak Russian. The origin of words - a shaman, shamanism, the medicine man, znaharchestvo are RUSSIAN. And because of our different languages, I can not give you all the values and differences between words. If English-sea. That the Russian language - the ocean.

My ancestors are a group shamans, but the invocation induction much of the spirit of the wild, so path closely associated with animalistic spiritualism may do so being in command but they always required some ransom payment of your self infliction, which turns out yourself unprotected to animal spirit infliction.

But its all in the command, once you get to lockdown your spells in a command of words that you could understood that they mean yourself no harm, that of which you being the master rather than they own you. Most spellcaster get inflicted through their own appearance, and a perfect caster usually doesn't backfire to self by altering best describe, your behaviour as path of the animalistic spirits.

To command it is at due, you must direct lockdown. No sacrifices required but the bidding of either casting is a successive one or not less that they wouldn't let you harm. Shamans command both the spirit of the dead, some are well alive roaming, as long as your agreement that you write with them, are LOCKED in win-win situation.

think it through, especially your words, because they respond through it, and may do so have different agreement. There is alot to study about it, especially if you're intending to master in Wild spirits.

I had no issue about your speaking skills and your grammar.. I do speak some Russian, but I am not that fluent anymore. My issue was rather with the way that you said that magic is closely related to Shamanism. and then went on to say that magic is artificial. I personally believe that shamans practice magic everyday just like any other practitioner. You made it seem or implied that they are opposites of each other or one is greater and more valid than the other, and that is not the way it is, unless of course you were speaking directly from a personal belief or opinion which I would respect.

I think you are quite intelligent, and you do make an effort to post what you know. But I do recognize the cultural differences that occur, that do account for most of the differences in opinion. But at the same time I notice that you are dead set in your beliefs and ways of thinking, and because such you treat things like fact, when most of the things you say are beliefs or opinions. The information you do give is presented in such a manner that makes people think that your way is the right way, but in addition and what's worse is that you act is if your way is the only way.

I have learned that one person can be wrong while the other is right. I have also learned that two people can both be right, and that they can both be wrong. I am not a lawyer, I am a therapist, so I generally think in terms of balance where there is always more than what we see. I do know that the modern day word Shaman comes from northern Siberia, and it has prominent roots there, Shamanism itself isn't a religion, its a path and a journey, a person may be of any religion and be a shaman as well. My point that I am making here is that while maybe your culture is rooted in strict rules of conduct and spiritualism, the rest of the world isn't so strict, as belief is belief, not fact.

Anyway again I can keep writing on this discussion until I am blue in the face.One more quick note of observation for you Marfa, is that a lot of your information and data you use is somewhat outdated, It would help in a well rounded discussion if you read up on or used more current and relevant material. I hope that you can be able to not only share what you know, but learn from others as well. Blessings.

Othala

OthalasWind has this one in the bag.

OthalasWind I do not want to argue with you, but add. Tradition is the foundation of magic, because they have evolved historically. I will not deny they can be interpreted in its own way. But I'm against the remake and fantasies.

Here's how to Mircea Eliade describes the concept of "shaman."

Since the beginning of the century ethnologists used to not too precise use of concepts such as a shaman, sorcerer, magician or sorcerer, to identify some individuals who have the magico-religious powers and found in every "primitive" society. Subsequently, this terminology is extended to study the religious history of the "civilized" nations, they say, for example, the Indian, Iranian, German, Chinese and even the Babylonian shamanism, meaning "primitive" elements of the respective religions. If the word shaman, each denoted by a mage, warlock, sorcerer, or mysticism, mentioned in the history of religions and religious ethnology, we eventually obtain an extremely complex and at the same time imprecise concept whose usefulness is highly questionable, since there is a magician and sorcerer terms to describe concepts as diverse as they are vague - such as magic or mystical primitive

That phrase is Mircea Eliade

"The shaman is, among other things, also a magician." If you read it in the sense, that is my phrase that "Shamanism is closely associated with magic, but the difference lies in the fact that magic is directed to artificial changes in the world at large, while the shaman is dependent on the forces of nature." Is equivalent to!

I hope you do not consider themselves superior to Mircea Eliade?


Awards Mircea Eliade

1980 - Lyons, University Jean Moulin Eliade nominated for the Nobel Prize that he was not given because of his political past.
1984 - He received an international award by Dante Alighieri in Italy.
1984 - Eliade was awarded the Legion of Honor for his book "The history of religious ideas."

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Autobiography (Autobiography)
No souvenirs (No souvenirs: journal, 1957-1969)
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Horn and the crucible (The forge and the crucible)
Diary (Journal)
Forbidden Forest (The forbidden forest)
On the street Myntulyasa (Pe strada Mântuleasa)
Marriage in Heaven (Nunt în cer)
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The Old Man and the bureaucrats (The old man and the bureaucrats)
Journey to the East, the journey to the west (Journey east, journey west)
Fantastic Tales (Fantastic tales)
Hooligans (Huliganii)
Youth without youth and other stories (Youth without youth and other novellas)

Although I don't use the title Shaman, I've been referred to as one by many. I am what most consider a hedgewitch--shamanism and european witchcraft combined. I didn't aim to be a hedgewitch. I was brought up in the Cherokee ways but decided to begin studying witchcraft around the age of twelve.

Having grown up with a slavic step-father and getting to know his mother who came from Ukraine, I can say that the perspectives on beliefs, superstitions, concepts, etc can be drastically different than those in the UK and America. Translation is also difficult due to the fact that some words frankly don't translate at all to english properly. The Coptic alphabet really puts a wedge in translation that latin based languages like French, Italian, and Spanish don't have. I've seen a group of people argue about the meaning of one single word from Ukrainian to English! With that in mind, I'll continue my points.

The slavic cultures never let go of it's pagan roots, merely slapped onto it Christian reasoning. So although times have changed, the slavic countries really haven't in terms of culture, belief, etc, which I admire. The knowledge is still there, from so very long ago. So I do enjoy reading Marfa's posts, whether I agree or disagree, because I find them fascinating--words that have probably been repeated for hundreds of years, generation to generation.

But my apologese for digressing from the subject.

Shamanism is a general term used to define such a wide range of magickal practioners throughout the globe that, in my opinion, one definition cannot possibly accurately pinpoint them all. So although I do not agree with Marfa, and side with Othalas based on my own understanding of Native American shamanism, I cannot say she is wrong. Between the possible miscommunication due to the translation from Russian to English and the cultural differences, she may be correct about SOME shamans. If she explained it in Russian, I'm sure it would sound much more concise.

But Marfa, since you are aware of your limitations, perhaps next time, to avoid future conflict, you can avoid matter of fact statements. Even I will write "in my opinion" "from my understanding" or "what I was taught" etc. unless it's a universally understood concept that has no true possibility of being disputed.

And to answer your question Night. Many people see no difference in those two words. If I am not mistaken, shaman is a label used for anthropological academics while "witch doctor" is more of a layman's label used long ago who saw people healing through magick and put the two together witch doctor(healer). But whether you call them shaman or witch doctor, they were the priest, doctor, wiseman, and even counselor of the community.

Thank you: WhiteRav3n. I do not like conflict. We are here for that would be enriched by knowledge and experience. Share your knowledge. And note the words, I do not impose as truth. But stick to the strict traditions. For me, the authority of knowledge is the Mircea Eliade, and not OthalasWind. And I do not make such dramatic statements as OthalasWind. I support a person expresses an opinion, and not blame others. I'll be only too glad if you tell me about their traditions

The word shaman comes from the Tungus-Manchu languages, the verb is associated with self - "know." Shaman designated person who is a mediator and elect spirits, having the ability to see a different, special and travel a reality in it. Every nation has its own names for shamans, which may differ even among single people, depending on the functions of the shaman and the shaman category: Evenks - adobe, a shaman, the Nenets - tadebey, the Buryats - boo, the Kets - Senin, the Altai stone . From the Turkic word stone was the word rite, meaning shaman ritual action, which is conceptualized as a journey through the worlds of the universe. In Russia, the word appeared in the XVII century, in written communications Russian service people from Siberia. Then it got to Europe via the foreigners, who rode in the Russian Embassy of Peter I in China through Siberia. The word was widely known and formed the basis of spread in science, the term "shamanism."

No one here is arguing with you Marfa, we are just stating our opinion and beliefs, just as you are. Just because what some of us, myself included, don't entirely agree with you or your perspective doesn't mean we are attacking you. I said what I said hoping that you would learn from the experience just as I am learning about Slavic culture. Keep in mind the constructive criticism is nothing to be ashamed of, I personally receive it on a daily basis.

Dear OthalasWind, criticism can be constructive or may be abusive in your case. You can go back to the first page and read your comments. But you can not put your opinion above the opinion of Professor Mircea Eliade TrackInside Inc of Chicago. You can agree or not as it did Knowledgeable and WhiteRav3n. But it is foolish to blame, and my statements are based on scientific studies Mircea Eliade.
You can just give an example of their traditions, is not it?
I think we understand each other.
I suggest to complement the knowledge of each other, and not to stir up conflict as you did.