I posted this in the main forums, under Covens, in the Witches of Heaven thread but it could serve here as well as an ongoing thought process. So here's my assignment for the week turned into creating my own sand box within the Coven space... =P
I assume my opinion is just going to end up in the heap of dissidents but I'll throw it out there anyway. I myself run a large pagan site. Large being in the areas covered and studied, not by no means in members as we are very particular in who is allowed to join. And this theory has come up on my site as well, 9 times out of 10 I tend to steer clear of it beings that my views and beliefs are I believe the newer generations are calling "old school". Until I had to flat out remove the discussions from my site as none of the core belief systems coincide with Christianity at all.
We hear terms like Neopaganism, Neowiccan, Christopaganism, Christowiccan, Spiritual Satanists, etc. Problem with all these terms are that they are "oxymorons". Those not familiar with the term "oxymoron", it simply means words and/or adjectives put together having opposite meanings of each other.
Seemingly enough as much as we as society do not like labels being placed upon us, we tend to strive to not only label ourselves but also doing so with wrong labels. Or even labels that make absolutely no sense and quite possibly serve as a joke.
In breaking things down, some have argued that Jesus Christ is a name, which is false. It is actually a name and a title. Jesus and as in the person (supposedly GOD's son) has many names depending on the religion or culture's perspective you are viewing it from. Christ is actually a title, derived from the latin term Christos, meaning the anointed one. So in all theory anyone in the Christian belief system who has been baptized by a Priest, Pastor, Reverend, etc. could be labeled Christ, as you were anointed through baptism.
One or two of you argued that Christopaganism or Christowicca are believed to have been practiced by early Christians; (facepalm) false again. The umbrella term Paganism and Heathen were used to describe anyone who was un-christ like or non-christian. To become christ-like you were anointed and followed the christian bible's teachings. This practice as a whole goes completely against what the earliest "Pagans" believed. Since within their belief systems to be baptized or "anointed", meant sealing off your third eye and perception of the spiritual/astral realm. Thus blinding you so to speak. Hence why christians turning to paganism supposedly have such a hard time re-opening their third eye. From hundreds of accounts within this site alone, many of you seem to have this issue; so I'd be safe to say that theory holds some water.
Christowiccans, this term I think cracks me up the most. Especially when a member posted earlier in this thread as a belief thought to be practiced by early Christians. There are two major forms of Wicca widely known and accepted worldwide. Both formed into a practice and taught one form by Gerald Gardner (Gardnerian Wicca started forming between 1939 & 1957) and the other by Alex and Maxine Sanders formally known as Alexandrian Wicca (1960's). Fact of the matter Gardnerian Wicca came first as Alex Sanders was initiated in Gardnerian Wicca before branching off and forming his own more eclectic form of Wicca which is more widely practiced today by the newer generations. Also through this path is where the term "Neopaganism" originated. Which in itself the Alexandrian path of Wicca became the new form of Wiccan practice. Though one form does exist as a direct infusion of both Gardnerian and Alexandrian traditions called the Algard tradition (1972) by Mary Nesnick. All 3 forms of Wicca were based off of British Traditional Wicca, which is considered to be Mesopaganism.
In Wicca a "wicca" is a male witch, and a "wicce" is a female witch. But the term witch can be used for masculine or feminine purposes. ;)
All three above mentioned Wiccan paths follow the horned god (originally known as god of the hunt to early civilizations) and the mother goddess. Masculine and feminine forms are separate deities. Whereas in Christianity you have God, Jesus Christ(physical manifestation of God), and the holy ghost (spiritual manifestation of God). All masculine, which isn't surprising since all positions of control and authority were given to males, no females. Except the Virgin Mary which later becomes Jesus's physical mother through divine conception but noted more as a role or historical figure, nothing more.
It is well obvious to anyone who takes the time to study history or even simply research history that some phrases just do not belong in the same sentence much less mean the same thing. And not all "new" practices fall under neopagansim or are even new to begin with.
With the term paganism you have three categories, Paleopaganism, Mesopaganism & Neopaganism.
“Paleopaganism” or “Paleo-Paganism” is a general term for the original polytheistic, nature-centered faiths of tribal Europe, Africa, Asia, the Americas, Oceania and Australia, when they were (or in some rare cases, still are) practiced as intact belief systems. Of the so-called “Great Religions of the World,” Hinduism (prior to the influx of Islam into India), Taoism and Shinto, for example, fall under this category, though many members of these faiths might be reluctant to use the term. Some Paleopagan belief systems may be racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. There are billions of Paleopagans living and worshiping their deities today.
“Mesopaganism” or “Meso-Paganism” is a general term for a variety of movements both organized and nonorganized, started as attempts to recreate, revive or continue what their founders thought were the best aspects of the Paleopagan ways of their ancestors (or predecessors), but which were heavily influenced (accidentally, deliberately and/or involuntarily) by concepts and practices from the monotheistic, dualistic, or nontheistic worldviews of Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, or early Buddhism. Examples of Mesopagan belief systems would include Freemasonry, Rosicrucianism, Theosophy, Spiritualism, etc., as well as those forms of Druidism influenced by those movements, the many Afro-Diasporatic faiths (such as Voudoun, Santeria, Candomble, etc.), Sikhism, several sects of Hinduism that have been influenced by Islam and Christianity, Mahayana Buddhism, Aleister Crowley’s religion/philosophy of Thelema, Odinism (some Norse Paganism), most “Family Traditions” of Witchcraft (those that aren’t completely fake), and most orthodox (aka “British Traditionalist”) denominations of Wicca.
Also included as Mesopagans would be the so-called “Christo-Pagans,” those who call themselves “monotheist Pagans,” and perhaps those Satanists who worship the Egyptian deity Set, if there really are any. The Satanists who insist that they don’t worship anything other than themselves but who like to use the name Satan because it’s “scary,” are simply Christian heretics, along with the Secular Humanists and other Western atheists, because the God and Devil they don’t believe in are the ones defined by Christian doctrine. Some Mesopagan belief systems may be racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. There are at least a billion Mesopagans living and worshiping their deities today.
“Neopaganism” or “Neo-Paganism” is a general term for a variety of movements both organized and (usually) nonorganized, started since 1960 c.e. or so (though they had literary roots going back to the mid-1800’s), as attempts to recreate, revive or continue what their founders thought were the best aspects of the Paleopagan ways of their ancestors (or predecessors), blended with modern humanistic, pluralist and inclusionary ideals, while consciously striving to eliminate as much as possible of the traditional Western monotheism, dualism, and puritanism. The core Neopagan beliefs include a multiplicity of deities of all genders, a perception of those deities as both immanent and transcendent, a commitment to environmental awareness, and a willingness to perform magical as well as spiritual rituals to help both ourselves and others. Examples of Neopaganism would include the Church of All Worlds, most heterodox Wiccan traditions, Druidism as practiced by Ár nDraíocht Féin and the Henge of Keltria, some Norse Paganism, and some modern forms of Buddhism whose members refer to themselves as “Buddheo-Pagans.” Neopagan belief systems are not racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. There are hundreds of thousands of Neopagans living and worshiping their deities today. As “Neo-Paganism,” this term was popularized in the 1960’s and 1970’s by Oberon Zell, a founder of the Church of All Worlds.
Cited: http://www.neopagan.net/PaganDefs.html
Normally I am not one for posting mass amounts of info in a forum, but it all needed said since its up for argument. Bottom line Skiing33 I can easily understand why your chosen title "Witches of Heaven" would raise many negative comments and ideals. Christians could quite possibly practice Magick with their religious preferences, however can not claim to follow two completely opposite religions at the same time effectively. That is referred to as fence straddling.
My final note is on Brysing, and this I find the most humor in especially for those who claim to be Christian and practice Magick. Brysing now easily in his 70's does seem to lack the patience and tact in dealing with what may seem to be idiotic claims at his age. But don't let his sometimes brash comments make your mind up about him. He has lived his life, finished grade school, college, seminary school, became an ordained priest/minister, practiced his faith, and now is a well experienced magick practitioner. He finally found what worked for him. So in debating the christian influence on magick practitioners today, I would listen to what he has to say before writing him off as an old fool. ;) (And Brysing if any of my history or definitions are wrong please feel free to correct me as christianity is not my strong point.)
Christian/Wiccan Debate
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